BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Yes but they also tell the computer when to throw a spark. So if you've got spark you should have fuel. When you put the key to II can you hear the fuel pump engage? Have you checked fuel pressure? Did you put the solenoid back properly under the glove box?

06_typeS

You mean the relay? It only goes in one way. I've had it out twice and put back in twice. When I turn the car to II, I hear the pump start for the two seconds. The relay also clicks twice while key is turned to II, And the third time when the car is rolling over.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Check to make sure the injectors are seated properly. They can be a real PITA to put back in. I'm out of ideas, need to be there to see whats going on

06_typeS

The injectors push in only so far right? Then you have to put the two ten mm nuts on the fuel rail? I noticed tonight that the orange rubber seals were a bit beat up. When do you wwant to come to NB for a road trip?

06_typeS

Ok, sooooo I just looked through the DIY again and the first pic made me think. The three relays in the glove box. Is the black relay the fuel relay? If so what are the other two? The brown, and blue.

When I did the DIY I removed the blue relay thinking that wwas the fuel relay. Could that have F'ed me over?

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

The fuel relay on the left is the "PGM-FI Main Relay 2" and is the one that needs to be removed to relieve the fuel pressure. It is blue.

The relay on the right is the "PGM-FI Main Relay 1" and it does not need to be removed.

However, if you took both of them off and put them back on, and you hear the fuel pump engage it should start. I've had both of mine out before.

I don't recall but I didn't have a black relay on mine.

RichJ

you folks were a great help with this project, mine blew the head gasket at 62K. Don't have a fancy write up but here's a link to my pics . You're welcome to use any if they appear handy. Things I learned, don't put the timing belt cover on till you've installed the alternator bracket. Don't put the fuel rail on till you've put the injector clips on.
I loosened the ABS unit and pulled it up and back and that little bit made a big difference.
Using a 1/4" drive socket and wobble ext on the EGR unit works well.
Honda phillips are JIS std which is different than our No.2.
http://rides.webshots.com/album/583054664wBMLPh

Thanks
Rich

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Great tips, glad you got it done

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

wow... that's early.

yep, i had to do same - seems there are slight differences between teh cars - some did not need to.

thanks for the added info!

scooty

I need a new HG at 120 K miles I'm about to tackle this job myself. Just a few questions:

1) Is it necessary to remove the water passage assembly that bolts to the side of the head?

2) Do the fuel injector O-rings need to be replaced?

3) I'll be working alone so is it possible to lift the head out without a helper? How much does it weigh?

4) How are are you guys cleaning the block HG mating surface without getting bits and pieces into the water jacket? Does the old HG come off cleanly or does it leave residue behind?

5) Am I the only one or did anyone else freak out that their torque wrench was a little out of calibration and a head bolt might accidentally get overtightened and snap?

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

1. Yes
2. No
3. Yes
4. I used 1500 grit sandpaper on a 2x4. This is NOT ideal. The best way is a die grinder with an ALUMINUM SAFE attachment (white plastic)
5. Probably

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

Bathroom scale says the bare D17A2 head I have lying around weighs in at 19 pounds. Mind you, the head I weighed is free of fluids and has no cam, rocker assemblies, valves, spark plugs, etc.

Orcus332

I'm planning on taking my 2005 ex SE in for head gasket job. I plan on buying the parts from Majestic honda. Just wanted to confirm that this is what is needed for the head gasket repair, timing belt, and water pump:

06110-PLD-010 GASKET KIT, CYLINDER HEAD $156.70
14400-PMM-A02 BELT, TIMING (104RU22 GB-333) $17.97
14520-PLC-335 TENSIONER SET, TIMING BELT $93.21
19200-PLM-A01 WATER PUMP $59.55

Also, I might as well have them do the belts too? 84K miles

Thanks!

scooty

Why does the water passage need to unbolt from the side of the head? If it does then can i just be lazy and instead of undoing the radiator hose, and water pipe from the water passage, just unbolt the water passage from the head and leave all the hoses attached ?

Looks like there are 4 bolts securing the water passage to the head and I seem to have access to all 4 with an extension and socket without undoing any of the hoses or sensors.

scooty

I'm guessing the cam, rockers and valves combined can't weigh more than the head it self. So I'm guessing 40 Lbs max. Shouldn't be a problem to lift out.

ezone

Large, awkward, sharp on the edges.....and dripping oil.
I was gonna guess 25 lbs. complete. Valvetrain by itself is pretty light.
I take the 4 bolts out. I do the least amount of work possible to get the head to lift straight up with no or minimal hassle.

WJackson2006

God its been a while now since ive posted been pretty frustrated with this HG thing
Car Has been parked now for 7 months under an inch of dust. im sending it to a shop that i get all my autoparts from but i need a complete parts list as im supplying the parts to do it...

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

here are some OEM part numbers for you. All of these are in the first link in the original post, also.

Head gasket kit: 06110-PLD-010

if you wish to replace these things:
Timing belt: 14400-PMM-A02
Timing belt tensioner set: 14520-PLC-335
water pump: 19200-PLM-A01
a/c belt:
ps belt:

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

That sucks man... did you attempt to do the job yourself or just haven't bothered getting it fixed?

crxmanpat

iTrader: (1)

Reviving this thread to say thanks for the DYI! I'm doing my HG at 167K. So far all I've used is the shop manual, and it sometimes leaves me scratching my head as to what they mean on some items since I'm not a trained mechanic. This DYI is helping tremendously!

So far the most I've ever done was swap a motor in a CRX, but that was with a certified mech helping, and actually doing most of the work. I'm doing this all on my own, but it doesn't seem that difficult.

On Sunday I got all the way to removing the intake. This weekend I'll have all the new parts in hand and will finish the job.

Thanks again for the DYI!

crxmanpat

iTrader: (1)

Oh, and a few lessons for the shade tree mechanics:

1. Label everything! (This can't be stressed enough)

2. Use tables for tools and parts. I have one table for tools, one table for my manual, and one table for parts (except for the large items). I also use a storage box (kinda like those clear trays that come in most tackle boxes these days), and put nuts and bolts in order they came out of the car. Once you finish with a tool, PUT IT BACK ON THE TABLE! You don't want loose tools in the engine bay, and it will save you time hunting tools.

3. WD40 is your friend. Use a lot of it for stubborn bolts. After they come out, clean them thoroughly. Then make sure you lubricate them, or apply threadlock as required.

4. Use the Shop Manual, it is also your friend.

ezone

I work with a person that absolutely cannot use a tool cart.
A retiring coworker even GAVE him a cart.
Still can't use it.

No clue why, may be superstitious for all I know.

Yet, repeatedly donates his tools to customers (leaves tools under the hood of the cars) and pays tremendous dollars to the tool truck to replace the same tools over and over and over and over and over and over.

Define 'crazy' again?

SMH.

crxmanpat

iTrader: (1)

When my mechanic friend (actually, my nieces husband) and I did the motor swap on the CRX, he put everything not in use back in his toolbag. He told me the easiest way to screw up an under hood repair was to leave a tool in the bay.

cookch1

I have what I think is an important question (in my opinion) related to replacing the head gasket. I have a 2002 Civic that needs a head gasket and the motor has 212,000 miles on it. I was told by several mechanics to not do just the head gasket but rebuild the engine with that many miles on it. They said with rebuilding the top of the engine I was increasing the compression and would likely have problems with the piston rings. One guy said most high mile engines he had rebuilt smoked heavily after replacing only the head gasket and doing a valve job. Is there a rule of thumb?

ezone

The statement is a physical impossibility.

I've heard this for decades, and usually by people I wouldn't let tie my shoes.
It is told by those that don't understand, and repeated by those that don't think for themselves.

Anyone that truly knows and understands how these things work would never make such a statement.


Probably agree, but only to a certain extent. At that mileage, and especially if you plan on running it another 100-200k, the time would be now to re-ring it (while the head is off) and slide in bearings if you wish.

If you don't care about that, and the engine hasn't been overheated, and it hasn't ingested coolant into any cylinders, and it doesn't already have oil consumption problems, and this and that and the other and and and ........
most people wouldn't go to the trouble or expense. The engines can live a long life already with proper care.

And it seems like the majority of people don't keep a car for 200,000 miles, it takes multiple owners to go that far.

Some people would rather dump oil in every couple weeks to keep it running too, rather than go to additional expense during the head gasket job..
Someone doesn't understand cause and effect.

The rings were likely compromised by the same thing that caused, or at the same time, that the head gasket blew and the head warped.
Severe overheating.
Coolant burning.
Stuck rings.
Cylinder wall damage.
And a host of other issues that can happen when an engine is allowed to continue to run in a severe overheat situation.

EDIT: The above does not apply to all cases. 7th gen Civics just blow the head gasket without any other reason, it's a design flaw IMO. The big problems happen after it is ignored and overheated.

I probably have more, but my 30 minute lunch hour is over.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

LoL. I got a good chuckle here... if you are not experiencing any other issues with the engine replace the timing belt and away you go. Especially if you are doing the work yourself. If someone else is doing it piston rings MIGHT be a good idea.

cookch1

I changed a head gasket and had a valve job done on a 93 Civic (205,000 miles) and didn't do anything to the bottom of the engine and didn't have any problems but just wanted to make sure. So, re-ringing the pistons doesn't sound like much more work since I will already have the top of the engine apart, right? Is that OK to re-ring the pistons without boring the cylinders out? Thanks for all the help!

ezone

According to lore, you should have 'blown all the rings out' because you didn't rebuild it!!!

That's up to you to decide.

The head has to come off to ring it, and the head will be off.
Do YOU want to do it now, or wait until it NEEDS to be done?


Boring the cylinders would cause you to need to pull the block to send it to the machine shop, and buy oversize pistons and rings.

You mean honing?

I don't hone if I do them in the car, and I don't worry about it. Slide them in and go. Check oil regularly during the break in period.
The manufacturer doesn't have us hone cylinders if we do rings under warranty either.

Clean the ring grooves good.




If you want to hone it, you need to be able to protect the crank and bearing journals, then after honing you need to be able to clean the cylinders with hot soapy water until they pass the white glove test (literally).

I have done it both ways, and the end result is really the same if all goes well----but if you hone it, there are a lot more places for things to go horribly wrong.
That's just one reason I don't do it anymore.

HTH

cookch1

I have some oil dripping from the oil pan and was thinking about replacing the gasket when I did the head so I might as well go ahead and install new rings. Thanks for the help!

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

Browsing CF on a phone kinda sucks, so I'm just gonna throw it out there for you cookch1. If you have an ex, the oil pan gasket is RTV. I've use the black "1-minute gasket" stuff from autozone with no complications. If you have a DX/LX, it's a physical gasket.

I've used the 1-minute gasket stuff on the oil pan, camshaft bearing ends, and valve cover "corners" and it's worked well. Just some food for thought.