MindBomber

There's a continual stream of new members joining the forum looking for a simple and inexpensive way to make their ES1, ES2 and EM2 civics faster, dropping in a stage 1 cam is the answer.

What models can a stage 1 cam be used in?
Stage 1 cams are designed to be run in D17a2 engines, found in 01-05 Acura ELs and 01-05 Canadian SI/American EX models.

I want a stage 1 cam, but I have an LX, what are my options?
In order to run a Brian Crower cam on a D17a1 engine, found in the 01-05 LX/DX/VP/SE/HX you must swap the head to one from a D17a2. A DIY article on the swap can be found here: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...p-ex-vtec.html

How much do stage 1 cams cost, do they require any supporting, what gains can I expect?
Brian Crower charges $350;
no supporting mods are required;
with I/H/E you can expect to make 20-30 whp.

If a stage 1 is that good, why not get a stage 2?
A stage 2 is significantly more aggressive than a stage 1 and therefore requires supporting mods that add to the cost.
Stage 2 also costs $350;
Titanium valves and springs are required, Brian Crower charges $320;
Engine management is required; the only acceptable option is k-pro, $900;
A K-pro modified cam gear is required, $180;
Tuning is required, 1 hour on a dyno is approximately $150 depending on where you go.

Please direct future stage 1 questions to this thread, I'd like it to become the definitive information source for people looking to do this mod.

Anyone with a dyno sheet available please post it up!

Considering ordering your camshaft directly from Brian Crower?
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...-com-rant.html

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

good info bomber

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

this is from another forum:

Shift-E

I understand you need an EX head to put in a Stage 1 cam gear.

I've heard that an A1 block with an A2 head performs better then a A2 head and block. I've also heard that all Blocks are the same, only the heads are different? Which of these statements are true?

MindBomber

I heard Gude makes cams with comparable durations to the BC stage 1 that work in a a1 head, I'm not sure why anyone would want to build a lx head though.

In theory the a1 block is better suited for turbo, because the stock pistons in it have a lower compression ratio; the a2 block would be better for a naturally aspirated engine with it's higher compression ratio.


There are a number of differences between the a1 and a2 block:
- d17a1 is 9.5:1 compression and D17a2 is 9.9:1 compression;
- The oil pan studs are different.
- The a2 pan is made of a different material and is a higher capacity than the a1 to accommodate the demands of the vtec system.
- some of the oil passages are are different, not 100% sure on this one.

Shift-E

Thanks MB.

So basically the only advantage to an A1+A2 head would be if I wanted a turbo, if not then just stick with getting an EX? I don't plan on turboing so I would do without that :P This is all stuff I'm considering for if/when I want to get an EX.

And Sdaidoji

If he's got an A1 block and A2 head and the stock ECU, shouldn't he also have a vafcII? Otherwise whats the point in the head swap?

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

You mean the crappy Vtec-E system? Not crappy per say, but not true Vtec... I used to love feeling vtec engage in the H22A, the sound change was awesome.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

i think he just put a EX ECU or he swapped in a A1 block - he is now turbo

apparently yes. compression and oil routing were the first things that came to mind. how different is what i don't know right now...

MindBomber

Back on topic..

sdaidoji, I expect a full review once you get yours installed.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

as soon as i can get the head off- last snag line, but the cam is just waiting
I will try to snag some pics of the differences if i can find a good angle, and some more for the install - don't remember seeing some details like the greasing.
the good part is that besides the maintenance work, there will be no changes in the car whatsoever.

Shift-E

Pretty excited to hear the outcome of this Not gonna lie lol.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

follow a picture comparing the 2. Crower is in the left. There seems to be a slight wider cam top, and the lift is slightly higher.
Not very noticeable visually, but that IS the reason it does NOT require a EMS/springs/retainers.


Unfortunately, i could not find a better angle to compare them... Will try again tonight.

Shift-E

I can barely tell the difference, they're almost identical! That's probably due to my untrained eye haha. Not enough experience in the aftermarket world :P

MindBomber

Added more info, excellent comparison pics sdaidoji.

ricanswt

iTrader: (1)

Actually just got the Stage 1 installed a few week ago (5/14/2011), but didn't take pictures. I don't want to judge it just yet, since my installer didn't adjust the valve clearances right (adjusted cold instead of hot). I am however comparing my mileage before and after though. Will post after my next fill up.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

You're supposed to adjust 'em cold

ricanswt

iTrader: (1)

You are right for the stock cam. Crower cam demands a hot clearance adjustment.

See Crower's Cam Card Finder and enter 63461.

The cam card specifies:
Intake Clearance Hot: 0.006
Exhaust Clearance Hot: 0.008

Anyway when I get my next oil change, I'll get it adjusted hot.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

Ah, good to know

Yeeg

Excuse my noobieness, but my knowledge in cam gears isn't that great. What exactly does the intake/exhaust hot/cold clearance mean?

MindBomber

Are you familiar with gapping spark plugs to ensure they are performing optimally?

I hope so, because that's the basis of my explination, just like spark plugs the intake and exhaust valves inside your engines head operate optimally at a set distance between the two surfaces. Normally a car needs to sit overnight before doing a valve clearance to ensure it's completely cold, since the expansion of metal interferes with getting the proper clearance. Strangely, brian crower requires valve clearances be done hot, i have no idea why..

If your a visual leaner, check this valve clearance diy pictorial out:

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...val-video.html.

Shift-E

Sdaidoji, whats the word on your project?

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, right now in South Carolina (since monday), driving a company car (accord 97 - wonderful V-6 with double wishbone front that oversteers in tight u-turns ) and be back tomorrow to TN, where miata and civic parts should have arrived for reassemblyin vic and disassembly/assembly in the miata (need to pick them up at UPS/FEDEX and DHL...) and some house inspections due next week for mortgage rate reduction, so hopefully will re-assemble vic sometime next week if lucky...
6 hours drive to here, 6 hours back to TN tomorrow, plus the 20 hours from QC to TN, so in 2 weeks, i have about 32 hours inside a car or 2000 miles... Aaaargh! Working like a dog 2nd week i am back.... Wah!

Shift-E

Wow, that's a busy schedule. No rush then, just anxious to see how it turns out haha. I hope your trips weren't too hard on you! That sounds exhausting :S

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

OK, after several snags in the Timing belt stuff, frozen bolts, stretched bolts, broken stuff, stuff that i did break during the instal, stuff i forgot to do and had to go back, a rocker arms separator that fell and i tightened it without noticing, etc, etc, plus all the paper work for getting back to US, the job transfer, business trips, etc, etc, i finally got it fired for the first time today.
all the recommended jobs done, first run.
All is going well, engine heated, did a few runs around the neighbourhood, all is well.
Hit the back road for a open test, step deep in the throttle and... throttle disappears. I forgot to tighten the throttle cable...
Stoop, hazard lights, tighten the cable, and another try!
When it hits 4500!!! Engine light! Bam!
Stooop, hazard lights, I had already the code reader hooked. P1259! Yeah!
Reset, get back home and wait engine cool down to check oil. It's good?!?
OK, new recheck, then new test.
Neighbourhood test- pass. Hit the road again. Doing good. Strangely enough, so far not so much ooomph from the cam.
hit the gas again. 1st, 2nd, good. 3rd, hit 4500 and BAM! P1259! yeeeaaaah!

Get home, recheck, and suuurprise! V-TEC connector was not all the way in. DuuuH!

After all this, let's go for the review! Sorry for all the story

Hit the road again, small test before and: whoa! V-TEC in had a little more ooomph. Mind you, I have a miata, 1.8, 145HP, much lighter, and i drive rentals in a normal basis, so my notes on power might not be sooo good, but changes are the most achieved so far.

There is slightly more torque in the lower range, but not so much. Let's see how it fares after the ECU adapts.
the larger difference is after the V-TEC hits. The engine raises revs much faster than before, it was hard to not to hit redline. Similar to the miata in some sorts.

It seems to spin the wheels a little more in tighter corners than before too.

I will review better after driving a little more.

The gains are not huge, mind you. But waaay more than when i put the CAI. Note: i do not have the Exhaust setup. All stock with exception to a muffler (cheap one.)

jamis33

Well good to read this. I have a lot of experience with the stage 1 cam. I installed this bad boy almost 2 years ago and I've gone pretty far with it. I started with a LX all stock except muffler and intake. I swapped to a ported and polished a2 head with stage 1 cam. I was running apexi afc neo for about a year and a half. During that time I swapped to a full 2.25" headerback exhaust. No cat. I upgraded to a 7lb flywheel and a fidanza 2.1 clutch. I had full plans of upgrading to a y8 intake manifold, but never got around to it. I will say this tho. The stage 1 cam is an awesome mod. I think sdaidoji is underestimating what it can do. I never drove an EX (with vtec) until AFTER I had all my mods. With the bolt ons I had. I was quicker than a b16 SIR. Pretty awesome considering its a heavier car and only has a 6750rpm redline. That dyno saying 124.5 was on a dyno dynamics and personally i think it grossly underestimated the power gain. I would rate my car at somewhere closer to 135 or 140whp. I went from driving my car to driving another member's car which was a mostly stock EX 5spd and it was significantly slower. I know they say tuning is not required but with my ported head I did notice some good gains after playing with the apexi afc to straighten out my afrs. I actually sold the exhaust because I bought a turbo, but I've been commuting to work and haven't had the time to boost it. I am now running on hondata kpro which was an even bigger upgrade with this cam. I'm now getting around 50mpg and with stock exhaust my car is a lot faster. I would say it has almost as much top end as I had with the full exhaust except it has much more midrange. I'm not suggesting going out and getting kpro just for a stage 1 cam but its pretty freakin sweet. I really think the headerback exhaust is the secret to making power with it. The vtec just screams with the header. Its loud even with stock exhaust. If anyone has anymore questions or comments feel free to post them up and I'll try my best to answer

Brian1037

I now have new goals for the car

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

Hey, Jamis, what's up? the explanation is below, guess thatclears what i felt the first day.

Ooook, now the ECU started to adapt to the cam. Hoooly! It's much more lively and revving faster than yesterday. If not for the darned knock sensor that i did not tighten enough, i would have pulled a little more (although it's still in break in, soo...
But yeah, now torque is coming in from lower RPM, overall power throughout the range seems pretty good. It's coming pretty close to the miata (not much power either ).
Engine is smoother, but that have to do with all the tune-up cleaning done, but engine feels more free than before. Lively would be the word.

SpeedDownZone

So since no on asked how much whp can you expect from going stage 2?

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

it's too much work, with the additional springs and retainers, and the need for a standalone EMS, so stage 1 is prefferable - much less work and cash and not enough gains for that alone, so we are keeping this to the stage 1 cams.
To make a stage 2 idle well, you need at the least hondata, so 1k cash...

marccayen

Well this also might be my next mod.