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Old 09-23-2008   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Ticket Question

Court date set for the date before thanksgiving. I pleaded today not guilty to the charge after the judge wouldn't let me take a class. Fuck it i'm going to work my ass off on this one. To remove this ad, register today for free or log in if already registered!
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Old 10-02-2008   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Ticket Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_cronic_metal View Post
Cop was approximately half a mile away and moving, ticket says that he was doing radar and listed device, but not that it was laser or regular radar.
laser, or LIDAR, cannot be used while moving. You have to be very still. The infrared beam WILL NOT work through glass so the officer has to be outside of his vehicle. (it is also very weather sensitive BTW). So that rules out laser.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_cronic_metal View Post
Now with the information given above do you think that I would have a chance in court. I've heard some people say that it doesn't matter if the road was wrong the cop can prove that it was you, and was your car. I have also heard though that wrong information such as a road being messed up, would make the judge have to dismiss the ticket, due to the fact that there's false information on the complaint.
I had a cop spell my last name completely wrong on my first ticket, but i paid it anyway since he let me off a speeding ticket with a seatbelt ticket. I chose not to fight this since he cut me a break. BUT, i know that a judge in Maryland had been pulled over for, (speeding?), i think. The freakin paper was twisted a tiny bit, so when the writing came through to the paper underneath (the defendant's copy of the ticket), the lettering was smudged a little bit so the ticket was dismissed! DISMISSED! So fight on my friend, fight to the death. A damn good lawyer helps too if you wanna smash the cop to the ground just to be an A Hole.

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Originally Posted by dj_cronic_metal View Post
At the end of the ticket he also decided to ask me for my phone number and social security number.... I did not give him this information.
He's a cop? He should have this information readily available to him? If not...i've heard of some sick cops out there man. It's sad.
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Old 10-13-2008   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Ticket Question

I'm thinking of saying that the cop had a romantic attraction to me. Or something along those lines. Just to embarass him. Here is what I have so far

-Wrong road on the ticket
-Multiple ticket issued within a 4 day period for this same violation to other motorist
-Proving that if the officer "did" get me on radar then he is supposed to also check visually which I am almost 100% sure I can prove. I gotta leave early one day to get pic's since it's darker out now at that time of night
-Asking officer to bring proof of calibration of radar equipment for that month and following month to prove no interference.
-Find out which officer actually saw the infraction or if both claim to. Obviously if the cop issuing the ticket was not the one who saw the infraction that means it shouldn't count in court"theoretically"

I also have the date on my side November 26th at 2pm, and multiple people 3 at the very least I know that have court dates the same exact day with same shift cops but different officers.

dryft you mention a lawyer how much would retainer for something like this cost me. Just don't want to spend more money than I need to if there's nothing he could really do.
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Old 10-15-2008   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Ticket Question

wooo even more of a boost today. I have been researching wether or not if you are hit with radar x,k bands if the monitoring device shows a speed. When you are stationary it does not show a speed at all even a 0 mph. This means that in my case even though a speed is listed there is no way that the officer could of properly monitored my stop and the speed he listed was probably me accelerating after I stopped at the stop sign. This is huge, now if I can prove that the officer was not able to properly see me or monitor if my wheels fully stopped then I will be in a much better position before going to court
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Old 10-15-2008   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Ticket Question

black rims are your biggest case. theyre almost impossible to see.
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Old 10-16-2008   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Ticket Question

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black rims are your biggest case. theyre almost impossible to see.
I'm trying to center a lot of the case around that. This helps though if I take away his ability to prove through radar the speed then that leaves resonable doubt if my pictures can prove it was too far. This week i'll post pictures of the area and let you all decide for yourself. I just need to leave early enough for work now. The time he pulled me over comes about an hour earlier now daylight wise.
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Old 10-28-2008   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Ticket Question

no dude, trial by declaration... do some research on this... its like going into court but you dont go.

when cops go to court they get paid overtime so thats why they almost always go... they dont get any overtime to do all the paperwork required for a TBD

im not a lawyer, im in law school, and ive read and spoken to people who fight tickets this way... you have to prove your case in a writng, knock out his prima facie case by putting holes in it.... l

like you said he was half a mile, how many blocks, and you have black rims... how could he tell,
how do you know 100% you stopped? did u change the radio station or change a cd while u were stopped...
ask about the social security info and whether that is routine, could it be a sign of racial profiling (unless you are white)

hope its not too late but look up trial by declaration... youll have to pay up front, but you can get your money back and im pretty sure if you lose, you can demand a retrial, plead guilty and still ask for traffic school

but make sure to look this all up to be sure
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Old 10-28-2008   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Ticket Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie1060 View Post
no dude, trial by declaration... do some research on this... its like going into court but you dont go.

when cops go to court they get paid overtime so thats why they almost always go... they dont get any overtime to do all the paperwork required for a TBD

im not a lawyer, im in law school, and ive read and spoken to people who fight tickets this way... you have to prove your case in a writng, knock out his prima facie case by putting holes in it.... l

like you said he was half a mile, how many blocks, and you have black rims... how could he tell,
how do you know 100% you stopped? did u change the radio station or change a cd while u were stopped...
ask about the social security info and whether that is routine, could it be a sign of racial profiling (unless you are white)

hope its not too late but look up trial by declaration... youll have to pay up front, but you can get your money back and im pretty sure if you lose, you can demand a retrial, plead guilty and still ask for traffic school

but make sure to look this all up to be sure
This would be good accept the state of arizona is not a trial by declaration state. This would be great if I was in cali or something, but in my case its not available.
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Old 10-28-2008   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Ticket Question

My pictures will be added next week but here is what I have so far

Opening questions to the officers

When was the date the ticket was issued?
What was the time of the citation?
Where was the Citation issued?
What did the vehicle look like?
Was the vehicle bright?
Was the cruising moving or stationary?
What radar device was used?
Was the device serviced the month previously and on time?
Was the device served the following month on time?
Was there any adjustments made to the device?
Did you test the device before your shift?
Did you use a tuning fork?
Did you visually verify the infraction?

According to ARS section 28-855

B. A driver of a vehicle approaching a stop sign shall stop before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if there is no crosswalk, shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, or if there is no line, shall stop at the point nearest the intersecting roadway where the driver has a view of approaching traffic on the intersecting roadway before entering the intersection except when directed to proceed by a police officer.

By this statue a stop would be the cession of movement of a vehicle to make sure a clear path is available to complete a manuver. The statue makes no procedure to the time a motorist must sit and watch before proceeding.

On the date in question I was proceeding to my job at 6:45pm when I came to the intersection of Watson road and Southern Avenue. The citation states that that I was pulled over on Southern and Watkins road. As you can see from the photo the roads to not intersect nor are they within a mile distance from the location of the stop or in an area where the officer would of persued me for the traffic stop.



The first star represents a location on watkins road and is highlighted in a red line showing the location
The blue line represents southern avenue and the path it follows

As you notice from the citation with two officers present, the geographical location was still wrong.

The next item that I would like to point out is the color of the wheels on my vehicle and my tires. I currently run a bf goodrich 205/40/17 tire on a msr series 113 wheel as pictured below



This combination of wheel/tire is more complicated to see at a distance than a normal wheel and tire combination and a brighter colored rim. I would also like to point out the time of the citation at this time. If you will notice the time was 6:45pm on 8/20/08. At this point in time we are entering evening hours which makes visual of my vehicles wheels more difficult to see.
(



Now I know that the officer states from the citation that according to radar I was proceeding through the intersection at a rate of 10mph in a 45 mph road. At this distance I do not believe it's clear enough to the officer when the stop actually occurred and when the procedure of the maneuver occurred. I would also like to point out as information obtained from a local police agency that when a vehicle is not moving it does not register on moving radar. Once the vehicle starts to increase speed the gun will follow until the officer locks in the speed. Since this was a stop sign radar should have not been a determining factor, but if so I would like the officer to present the certification for calibration of the instrument from t he beginning of the month, as well as any adjustment that had to be made to the unit at the beginning of the following month to determine if the unit was incorrect. In addition to this did the officer test the unit and tune it with the tuning fork at the beginning of the shift, or did he proceed to duty without testing his instruments?

If the officer did not do this before the shift and there is no record at what adjustments had to be made to the unit during the following month or shift. I believe this constitutes reasonable doubt that the officer used a moving radar device to determine if I stopped or not. In addition to this the officer from the distance pictured did not second check his radar visually since it was not possible that it was clear enough for the officer to see.

The officer at the end of the stops solution for this not to happen was to stop longer at the stop sign in the future, again none of this is mentioned in ars section 28-855

During my last court date I was alerted that multiple individuals had been cited between August 20-24 for stop sign violations meaning that this was just the special of the day so to speak to be stopped for.

I would also like to point out that during the stop I was questioned about my vehicle as the officer complimented me on how much he liked it. This of course leads me to think that I was profiled by the officer for the look of my vehicle, in addition the officer asked me for information (phone number and social security number after the stop and citation was issued. I don't understand what any of this information would do to serve him, but it makes me question why the stop happened as well. Could I have been profiled as an ethnicity because of where I worked? I complied with everything the officer asked accept for this.
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Old 11-08-2008   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Ticket Question updated 11/8/08

bump due to update
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Old 11-08-2008   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Ticket Question updated 11/8/08

when is court? thats really far away. i thought he visually saw you run the stop. theres no way you can see that far unless he has a telescope in the car. radar isnt used to measure stop sign violations. the judge will see that and throw the case out. esp with all the other shady stuff you mentioned
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Old 11-08-2008   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Ticket Question updated 11/8/08

Quote:
Originally Posted by gearbox View Post
when is court? thats really far away. i thought he visually saw you run the stop. theres no way you can see that far unless he has a telescope in the car. radar isnt used to measure stop sign violations. the judge will see that and throw the case out. esp with all the other shady stuff you mentioned
court is Nov 26th the day before thanks giving at 2pm
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Old 11-08-2008   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Ticket Question updated 11/8/08

Seems like a good argument, pictures are convincing.
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Old 11-25-2008   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Ticket Question updated 11/8/08

two days left. Gotta get my final argument together, pictures are printed out. Hope the government doesn't look to bang me in the ass wednesday.
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Old 11-27-2008   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Ticket Question updated 11/8/08

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I Fucking Won And Only Got To Use Half Of My Evidence
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