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Akron- Cocaine users can more easily drive themselves into trouble in Summit County, the first place in Ohio to pass a law that supporters say will make it easier to convict people for driving while drugged.
The law, which took effect Aug. 26, is a small part of an emerging national effort to raise awareness of so-called drug driving and to make drivers who are stoned on an illegal substance just as accountable as those who are driving drunk.
Although there are time-tested methods for determining drunk drivers, setting standards for the testing of drugged drivers invites questions:
How much cocaine, marijuana or other illicit drug needs to be ingested before a driver is deemed to be impaired?
If a driver ingests a drug days or even weeks before a blood test and the drug is detected in his system, is it fair to charge that person with driving under the influence?
Some supporters of the laws say such questions are irrelevant. Any driver found to have an illegal drug in his or her system should be busted for driving under the influence, they say.
Statistics about cocaine and its effect on driving are limited. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta states that drugs other than alcohol, such as marijuana and cocaine, have been identified as factors in 18 percent of deaths among drivers.
The Summit County law establishes a limit for the amount of cocaine permitted in a motorist's blood.
Summit County Councilman Paul Gallagher, sponsor of the law, said the level needed for a conviction is the lowest level of cocaine that can be accurately detected with existing testing methods. If that level is exceeded, the driver can be charged with DUI and receive the same penalties as someone convicted of driving drunk.
Gallagher, an assistant county prosecutor in Portage County, said that while police throughout Ohio can already seek a drug test if there is probable cause, outside of Summit County there are no blood-level limits like there are for alcohol.
Without such limits, Gallagher and others say it is more difficult to convict a driver of driving while drugged because it often involves the time-consuming task of getting an expert to testify about what the blood level means. Gallagher said he wants to eventually expand his law to include marijuana.
[zombienote: They want an arbitrary, and hence, irrelevant, rubberstamp to circumvent the jury process.]
Jerry Landau, special assistant attorney in Maricopa County in Arizona, is a national advocate of more drug driving laws. Landau said drugged drivers can be charged with DUI if they have minimal amounts of illegal drugs in their system in Arizona, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Minnesota, Rhode Island, Utah and Nevada. Those laws are similar to the law passed in Summit County for cocaine.
Landau said that whether a person used the drug days or even weeks before an arrest for DUI is irrelevant.
"It is illegal to use that drug; therefore, if it is illegal to use that drug you can rationally say that you shouldn't drive with that drug in your system," said Landau.
[zombienote: What do ya know? There's an arbitrary and irrelevant rubberstamp now. You are impaired because we said you are. Whump!]
Don Malarcik, an Akron criminal defense lawyer, said that drug driving laws invite courtroom challenges.
"There is no way to determine when someone ingested marijuana based on a blood or urine test," Malarcik said. "If some cop says 'Pee in a cup,' what amount of marijuana in your system determines you are impaired? How much cocaine impairs your driving ability? I don't think there is any reliable scientific evidence that answers that question."
John Hartman, director of the Ohio Cannabis Society, said he doesn't encourage people to smoke marijuana and drive but questions Gallagher's intent to expand his law to include marijuana.
"Is this who you want as a judge?" Hartman asked, noting that Gallagher is running for a Cuyahoga Falls Municipal Court judgeship. "He wants you to lose your license today for the joint you smoked last Friday. One thing about Americans is that we're supposed to be fair. It seems like we're becoming less fair."
I got no problem with busting the shiznit out of morons who drive stoned (or drunk). Take away their license for all I care.
If I get smoked by some burnout I'll kill him before the drugs do, I promise that.
Is this even an issue? We already know you can't drive drunk so why should there be a debate about stoned? To me, if you find a roach in the ashtray you should be screwed!
Although there are people who can hold their smoke (so to speek) they're are way too many people who get all lucid and stupid before they're "legally" stoned...Not exactly the state you should be in while driving your car.
I probably shouldn't even be posting in here since I pretty much detest all narcotics and don't drink either so it makes my opinions a little one sided.
Originally posted by Pharoh I got no problem with busting the shiznit out of morons who drive stoned (or drunk). Take away their license for all I care.
If I get smoked by some burnout I'll kill him before the drugs do, I promise that.
Is this even an issue? We already know you can't drive drunk so why should there be a debate about stoned? To me, if you find a roach in the ashtray you should be screwed!
Although there are people who can hold their smoke (so to speek) they're are way too many people who get all lucid and stupid before they're "legally" stoned...Not exactly the state you should be in while driving your car.
I probably shouldn't even be posting in here since I pretty much detest all narcotics and don't drink either so it makes my opinions a little one sided.
LMFAO you are retarded. The point of this would be testing people who arent really even under the influence. Just because you find THC in someones body doesnt mean that they smoked a joint 5 seconds ago. It stays in your body for weeks, so I could goto another country smoke a joint, come back get pulled over and get thrown in jail.
Quote:
Originally posted by Pharoh I got no problem with busting the shiznit out of morons who drive stoned (or drunk). Take away their license for all I care.
If I get smoked by some burnout I'll kill him before the drugs do, I promise that.
Is this even an issue? We already know you can't drive drunk so why should there be a debate about stoned? To me, if you find a roach in the ashtray you should be screwed!
Although there are people who can hold their smoke (so to speek) they're are way too many people who get all lucid and stupid before they're "legally" stoned...Not exactly the state you should be in while driving your car.
I probably shouldn't even be posting in here since I pretty much detest all narcotics and don't drink either so it makes my opinions a little one sided.
Yo d00d....If I'm a cop and I find an empty beer bottle in your ride what do you think I'm gonna do...the same thing should apply if I find a roach in your tray....If you're caught taking your first sip out of your first beer IN THE CAR, your screwed....If you're caught taking your first pull off a joint...you're also screwed...Like I said...I might be one sided but I also don't give a $hit!
So get my point please and if all you got is stupid signature insults then you're in the wrong house...ass!
Diemos-The closest reference Pharoh made to cops busting you while you are not stoned (haven been stoned weeks ago) and driving was a roach in the ashtray. And, it is a safe assumption that if there is a roach in your car ashtray, you have been stoned very recently which would more than affect your driving whether you want to fess up to that or not, it is just more than a fact that it does affect your driving. On the other hand and to outright be stereotypical and not being insulting to you for I don't know you and know if this is true with you or not. Pot smokers can be lazy, stupid (kills brain cells), and forgetful which could lead to a roach kicking it in the ashtray without being touched for weeks. Anyway, your insults to Pharoh and injencivic are not gonna fly in here or anywhere else on the site, got it? Pharoh and injencivic were just giving their opinions and they more than have that right, just like you do. There is absolutely no need to insult them with real cheap shots for voicing their opinion even though it does not agree with yours. That is baby shit, grow up! They never once insulted you personally in this thread, they just gave their opinion on the matter that you put in a public forum for others to do just that. So, we clear? I understand that you are referring to testing a driver and busting him while driving under the influence even though he was not for he smoked weeks ago. I agree, that is messed up. I personally believe it is an individuals choice if they do drugs or not. But, as soon as that individual is high and driving with innocent peeps around, that individual needs to be yanked from driving like that. They then have no right to be driving for it is sheer ignorance or lack of care about others which can and has killed and hurt innocent peeps. Pharoh and injencivic may of not addressed your particular point in this thread, they just addressed their take on the driving while high which is fine for they have the right to do so.
__________________ The Righteous, Racing and Rocking the house in my car babe!
Originally posted by Diemos Ofcourse you would, by the way that girl in your sig is frikin nasty, she looks like Michael Jackson.
u must be a fag then huh, cause all i have gotten is compliments, thats charisma carpenter prolly the hottest girl out there right now. You have to be gay since you compared her to michael jackson anyways
Diemos- most excellent post. Very intersesting read.
I have charged a person with impaired driving due to drug. He was found not guilty as a issue of doubt was raised in court as to his impairment. In other words, the case was not proven beyond a shadow of doubt. Dispite the odour of freshly burnt marijuana coming from within the vehicle, His heavily red eyes, dry mouth, slowed speech, rolling papers and visine in the car, and the fact that he was driving well below the posted speed limit on a straight roadway with no other vehicles on the road. The guy even admitted to me at the scene that he had smoked a joint.
Even if I did have a blood analysis done, it would not have proven that the drugs found in his blood were related to the time of the traffic stop.
Its frustrating, but at least I got this ******* off the road.
Just thought i'd share that. I'll shaddap now!
oh, and can we please stop the name calling. Just doesnt make sense to me. Thanks
__________________ FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS DRIVE STOCK.
I understand where that insult back to Diemos came from injencivic, he got you, so you got him. So, you two are even now, enough from the both of you now, please! We are big boys and girls and need to stop the baby playground shit of name calling and insults.
__________________ The Righteous, Racing and Rocking the house in my car babe!
Thats not the scenario here. Why dont you read the article? That is such a fallacious argument due to the fact that it does not even reflect the situation at hand. Because the whole contraversy is the fact that they cannot tell if the person is under the influence nor do that have contraban present, and that the tests they give these people are not reliable as to when the person consumed the illegal substances. Although I know that if you respond to my post the only thing you can do is ramble about the cops finding drugs on you, and that isent even the case. Do you know that there are over 250 over the counter medicines (not including offbrands) that can make you test positive on those tests? How would you like to be pulled over randomly, drug tested, and taking to jail for being under the influence of drugs that you didnt even consume? Because THAT is the situation at hand, its providing law inforcement with too much power. The fact is, people can easily be falsly accused, and what happens when we take away citizens rights? Ever been to china?
Quote:
Originally posted by Pharoh Yo d00d....If I'm a cop and I find an empty beer bottle in your ride what do you think I'm gonna do...the same thing should apply if I find a roach in your tray....If you're caught taking your first sip out of your first beer IN THE CAR, your screwed....If you're caught taking your first pull off a joint...you're also screwed...Like I said...I might be one sided but I also don't give a $hit!
So get my point please and if all you got is stupid signature insults then you're in the wrong house...ass!
Originally posted by Diemos Thats not the scenario here. Why dont you read the article? That is such a fallacious argument due to the fact that it does not even reflect the situation at hand. Because the whole contraversy is the fact that they cannot tell if the person is under the influence nor do that have contraban present, and that the tests they give these people are not reliable as to when the person consumed the illegal substances. Although I know that if you respond to my post the only thing you can do is ramble about the cops finding drugs on you, and that isent even the case. Do you know that there are over 250 over the counter medicines (not including offbrands) that can make you test positive on those tests? How would you like to be pulled over randomly, drug tested, and taking to jail for being under the influence of drugs that you didnt even consume? Because THAT is the situation at hand, its providing law inforcement with too much power. The fact is, people can easily be falsly accused, and what happens when we take away citizens rights? Ever been to china?
man, I've been pulled over for suspision before and I don't care, you know why...Because I don't and have never drank and I haven't and never will do drugs. I get a kick out of the look on an officers face when they ask me how much I've had or if I smoked whatever....I tell them I don't drink and it almost makes them suspicious...lol.
I said it at least 3 times...I don't do drugs and I have no tollerance for them so I'm very BIAS on the whole topic. In my opinion (again...MY OPINION) if you did the drugs in the first place you shoulda known the potential downfalls even after you came out of your haze. It would be alot easier to save your fecking money and just not use them at all then you'll have nothing to worry about.
Once agian your stupid ass has completely missed the point, YOU could be pulled over and TESTED for drugs, and come up POSITIVE! Hello, you stupid sack of shit, thats why this is sooo much worse for the citizens who dont do drugs. They can be falsly accused and convicted for crimes they did not commit. This is bad for the non-drug users, and drug users alike. Jesus christ, someone throw this kid a bone.
Quote:
Originally posted by Pharoh man, I've been pulled over for suspision before and I don't care, you know why...Because I don't and have never drank and I haven't and never will do drugs. I get a kick out of the look on an officers face when they ask me how much I've had or if I smoked whatever....I tell them I don't drink and it almost makes them suspicious...lol.
I said it at least 3 times...I don't do drugs and I have no tollerance for them so I'm very BIAS on the whole topic. In my opinion (again...MY OPINION) if you did the drugs in the first place you shoulda known the potential downfalls even after you came out of your haze. It would be alot easier to save your fecking money and just not use them at all then you'll have nothing to worry about.
Lose your License for Smoking 
