More TURBO info.....Questions, etc....

[opto_isolator]

Ok, I've been following the threads for a while now - and it seems that the only way to put a turbo in our civics is to DIY.... Yes, there is talk of "kits," and group buys, but so far that's all they are - talk. Than there are those who have gone the custom route - some spending as much as 5 g's. Personally I believe this to be a little excessive. I believe (like Grey, and riceburnerex) that a turbo system can be achieved with minimal out of pocket cost of components - say between $2000 - 2500 if you take the time to price what you want, and shop around. From my understanding of everything, the two most expensive components of this endevour would be the custom exhaust manifold (probably around $500 or so at an exhaust shop who know's what they are doing), and the turbo itself (another $500-700). Since I am an electrical engineer, I think facts and figures. I'm laying it out on the table here what I will need to get this to all work together. Please feel free to add anything - however this isn't one of those "me too!!" or "I wish" threads - I actually plan on doing this.... Anyhow here is what I am thinking: custom exhaust header intercooler turbo with external wastegate (pros and cons of internal vs external?) - piped across turbine electronic boost controller intake blow off valve - piped back to inlet side of turbine Missing Link for MAP sensor 1 additional fuel injector to compensate for limited fuel pressure oil cooler / and or lines for turbo Now for those of you who have a turbo setup - I have a few questions for you. 1. Does the electronic boost controller interface with your stock ECU, or is it completely seperate? If so, is there any modification to the ECU that is necessary? I am only going to go to about 8 PSI boost max - I don't want to damage my engine or accelerate wear more than I have to. 2. What about the fuel system? Do I just need to tap off of the incoming fuel line for the extra injector? 3. Can anyone explain the different sizes of turbos to me and what would be good for our application? More questions as this thread progresses......Thanks!

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[Boosted2k2]

Revhard offers the turbo manifold for $600 and you can keep your A/C.

A smaller turbo is better for smaller displacement, because the amount of exhaust gas expelled from the cylinders is small. So you want something that can spool up fast with a small amount of exhaust flow. T3 or a T3/04 is good. A T25 is good too. HKS produced over 200hp with it.. As far as the extra injector, you need a fuel controller to control the injector under boost. Along with Grey's idea, you are still looking at around $2500-3000 or a little more. It's recommended to upgrade the clutch with like an ACT Xtreme kit. I don't know how I'm going to do my fuel system yet, but there is a way around the extra injector setup while still keeping it returnless. I've searched around the internet and I'm halfway to finding out how (nobody wants to tell). As far as a wastegate, internal one's somewhat restrict the exhaust flow. External one's are generally larger and allow better flow-through.

There is a group buy going on for a turbo kit with a t3 in the products and parts section for $2900 complete. You could check that out. I'm working mine out with someone I can talk to face to face and can show me previous work of theirs. Mine comes out to $3500 part for part equivalent to a stage II kit. I'm trying to work out a package deal with the place though. Probably will be $4000 after labor, tune, dyno, and parts. But I'm willing to spend extra money for a warranty on the work, and the ability to just walk down the street to the place.

[wcsjunior]

damn man... even $2000 is a lot for a turbo!!!! my friend just bought a turbonetics t3 for $150... and yes it was all polished, turbine was fine and everything.... so do the math... u will end up payin waaayy less than 2gs!

[Boosted2k2]

Originally posted by wcsjunior
damn man... even $2000 is a lot for a turbo!!!! my friend just bought a turbonetics t3 for $150... and yes it was all polished, turbine was fine and everything.... so do the math... u will end up payin waaayy less than 2gs!

?
We're talking about a full turbo setup: turbo, intercooler, chargepipes, manifold, wastegate, BOV, boost control, fuel control, clutch, etc etc. $150... maybe a used rebuilt T3. Definately not new. A new remanufactured one goes for like $400 or so depending. Brand new from turbonetics could go to over $1000.

[opto_isolator]

See, that's my question. How can companies offer turbo kits for the previous model civics for around $1200 or so, and this "custom kit" which we are putting together cost upwards of $3000?

It shouldn't have to cost THAT much money - I mean sure, if you want to have it done by a professional, than yes - it WILL cost that much money (and that isn't meant as a flame, just that I enjoy messing with things myself, and won't bring it to a professional unless I can't fix it - but that's just me).....

What is the "other" option you are talking about for your fuel system setup besides the extra inejector?

I've read that if you increase the size of the stock injectors that the car will not idle as well as it should.....

So.....That leaves not too many options, unless you get a custom burnt chip - but everyone know's no one has taken that upon themselves yet.....

Damn - I hate playing the waiting game. I wish I had some hard facts and figures for putting something like this together - but it seems like no one is willing to "share" their data with anyone else on this board (such as how much they spent on the damn thing), or other "secrets" they may have in getting it to work.....Which in my eyes is counter-productive for everyone....

[Speedracer32]

internal and external...there a chance of boost spike with external but since your lookin for only 8psi max like me you could chill with a interanl one which is set around that range.

for the loow bost were runnin you could just upgrade the injectors and be ok but for the future a new fuel sytem will be need.
for me im just upgrading the injectors, fuel rail and FPR.
you could run LOW, emphasis on low, boost with a stock ones until you upgrade and i know this becuase i've seen it on one of our cars.

my kit is only going to be less than 2,000 and im sure because i've shopped around from turbos to manifolds toget the best prices. I'm sure there is goin to be a set back when i go to get it installed so im making sre i have the extra cash just incase something my be missing.

im lookin to run 5 psi daily

[opto_isolator]

So you are upgrading the fuel system? One thing of question to me is that if we use larger injectors, and beef up the FMU, will we need to run a fuel return line? I'm not too sure on the concept of the return line yet (still doing some more research).

Also, what about oil lines for the turbo? Are most turbo's (T3, etc) oil bearing or ball bearing? What concerns me is the "turbo timer" effect of having to leave my car running a few minutes after I drive just to cool the turbo down.....

[HCCriminal]

http://www.homemadeturbo.com/

[opto_isolator]

Garrett's new GT20 and GT22?? BAD @SS! HKS has the next larger size for sale - but DAMN they are expensive - about $1900, JUST FOR THE TURBO!

But it would be a sweet addition......

[CivicLX620]

Moderator should send this to the new Forced Induction forum. That place needs a good topic to start on.


Joel

[Boosted2k2]

Originally posted by opto_isolator
Garrett's new GT20 and GT22?? BAD @SS! HKS has the next larger size for sale - but DAMN they are expensive - about $1900, JUST FOR THE TURBO!

But it would be a sweet addition......

Everything HKS has cost too much $$$

[Got Boost???]

t3/t4 hybrid is a average sized turbo good power and not much lag
t25 is a larger and will have noticably differences in both power and lag
t51 probally the biggest you should go (if you can fit it) on a civic
t88, the 9 sec civic on TV are sportin t88's
t100, biggest turbo ive seen, your head < t100, small dog < t100, get my point.

[Speedracer32]

Originally posted by opto_isolator
So you are upgrading the fuel system? One thing of question to me is that if we use larger injectors, and beef up the FMU, will we need to run a fuel return line? I'm not too sure on the concept of the return line yet (still doing some more research).

Also, what about oil lines for the turbo? Are most turbo's (T3, etc) oil bearing or ball bearing? What concerns me is the "turbo timer" effect of having to leave my car running a few minutes after I drive just to cool the turbo down.....

Just a little
the guy i know tried to put 40cc DSM injectors in but they wouldn't fit so he had to put his stock ones back in so he turned down the boost. Runs lean every now and then but they aren't goin to be in there long. Probably has thme out by now.
The only other ones are custom from RC engineering... maybe 440's
that's what they usd on the new SI but i haven; researched that yet but they are expensive
cheapest i've seen in like mid 80's per injector so expect to come out the pockets

FMU...someone post this digital one in another thread so it's something to research on.
the shop in Virginia that's putting myine on said they could fix it so ima see if i just let them worry about the fuel system.

get a turbo timer that way you wont have to sit in your car and wait for it to cool down and oil drain out. some car Alarms come ith that option

hope that help

[opto_isolator]

Where does the oil supply connect to on the engine? I can't seem to find any info about where to connect the supply piping?

I was thinking - it would be easy to fabricate a simple custom oil system for a turbo - with a mechanical turbo time (ie, the engine would NOT have to run for the turbo timer to run).

Idea: Plumb two lines out of the oil pan - an oil feed, and an oil return. Install a small electronic oil pump on the feed line, one which will sustain pressure and volume as necessary. Connect that up to the ignition system so that when the car is running, the pump is running. Install a timer relay in parallel with the ignition so that when the ignition turns off, the relay runs the pump for the specified amount of time (ie, your engine doesn't have to run!).

If the idea of running the main oil supply off of an electronic pump doesn't sit well with you - than just tap off of the engine pressure (as normally would be done) - but install a line in parallel with that with the timed relay - voila - cheap and easy turbo timer WITHOUT running the engine!