Blown Turbo!

[FoSho]

Ok, so to add to my good luck........ I'm about halfway to work this morning & I notice I am absolutely covering the road in white smoke (it's really cold here aswell) I was just driving 30 mph..no boost. My oil temp gauge is at 175 & my psi is good, coolant gauge is good too. So I'm crossing my fingers it's just the return line busted off on the exhaust. One block from work it starts to buck a tad......I coast into work & turn it off. I pull the dipstick & find healthy fresh oil (thank god!) & coolant!!! Car runs at idle with no problems, motor sounds healthy. Whenever you rev it up smoke just poors out the back, smells like burnt oil, & smoke comes from up from around the tubro!!!! I've never blew up a turbo before but If I'd have to guess.............Any theories??? I'll have more time to look at it after work. Maybe a seal is bad? -Car has always been let sit @ idle for at least 30 seconds every time before i turn her off -I hope dezod has turbine warranty probably not, knowing my luck (it'll be precision warranty which will never go through) F&*()&K~~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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[Alpha 5]

Sounds expensive. It also sounds like someone is going back to NA for a while.

[FoSho]

Yeah, no kidding. I've about had it with this kit. I have so much money wrapped up into this. I really can't justify this anymore. I'm seriously thinking about selling the whole thing. Wonder what I can still salvage with a busted turbo?

I pulled this quote off a turbo rebuild site:

Smoking problems can, in some cases, be traced back to the bearing shaft oil seals. A leak here enables the pressure/vacuum generated by the compressor to pull the oil around a failing bearing. Oil residue in the compressor housing and intake pipes will be a warning sign of this ailment.

[speedfoos]

Oil seals on the turbo. Exactly. You haven't blown the turbo yet, but you will very soon. Pull that ****er off now and fix it/get it fixed before you cause irreparable damage. You should just be able to replace the seals and be done with it. This shouldn't even be that expensive ($40-50 IIRC).

Were you running an oil restrictor? My guess is not. If you don't run one, turbo floods with too much oil and the seals blow as a result.

If it's a bearing they should have a warranty. Have you called Paul yet?

This really sucks dude, sorry to hear about it.

[dezod]

Do you make any boost with it? You have the Precision model? If so, they have a 1 year warranty!

[FoSho]

I don't know if I makes any boost. I saw the smoke & drove like grandma to work. I did not hit boost at all this morning. Should I go out & test drive. I really don't wanna make things worse. I do need to get the car to my shop and If i can avoid a tow it'd be great.

Clint, no I do not have an oil restrictor. Kit did not come with one and I was told I do not need one. I suppose I should invest in one now.

Dezod,

My part # from precision - PTB300-5027
Product # 5027E THGT8-27
Serial # 20333

Oh too make things worse....we had a huge ice storm here and I've been without power for a week I'm looking homeless!

I'm leaving for flordia in a week on friday though! I was gonna come visit Dezod but they moved to cold ass New York?

[speedfoos]

Eeeesh. I really would avoid driving it, and if you have to drive it, then pull the snail off and run an open header. When exhaust is going through the turbo, the turbine will spin. If the bearing is bad then this is not good. If the seals are blown, this is also not good.

Remember Justin's (boilermaker1) track day thread? You don't want that.

Off to my daughter's b-ball practice. I'll check back in a bit.

[FoSho]

Well, I can't confirm yet but I believe my turbo seals are suspect. I'll check it out after work but I got a gut feeling. So, I guess I need to have her rebuilt. One, what do I need to do for warranty dezod? I suppose they will not rebuild for free. Turbo's easy to rebuild? I tore one apart once & it was cake.

I found many a site suggesting 30-45 psi on t3/t4 nonBB turbos for the bearings. Shit, mine hits 60-70 psi on cold starts & close to 75-80 psi.....so I probably do need an oil line restrictor. If this is the case can I put a restrictor in & solve the problem or are the seals already toast?

Dezod, you had any other problems with this?

Barely even 10,000 miles on the potato

[speedfoos]

Seals are gone man. Hate to say it, but once they go, there's really no saving them. Oil restrictor is not so much for the pressure of the oil, but the amount it allows into the turbo at any given time. Standard -4AN line can dump a lot of oil into the turbo, causing the seals to go out.

As long as the bearing (the Precision you have is a sleeve bearing right?) is not tits up, you should be all right. I think they sell rebuild kits and you may even be able to do it yourself. (Knocks on wood), I haven't run into this problem to say personally though.

[FoSho]

Ya, motherf&^*er thats all I gotta say! My luck. Only thing that concerned me was the little bit of shudder from the engine. I was just waiting for that *clunk* and sudden engine shut off. I'm gonna pull her in the shop & make sure it's the turbo.

Pressure check cooling system(make sure it's not sudden headgasket failure, doubt it since she didn't overheat.) pull plugs, check engine over, double check oil.....ya know I just made a 1 minute diagnosis, I and my oil changer jimmie! ahha! This is what I get for buying the best! Even when you try to do it right nothing works

[ronaldo9]

Don't fret man problems should ALWAYS be expected. Fix the problem, boost her again and save up for more unexpected problems. I think stuff like this comes with the territory but I wouldn't give up although I know you've spent a ton of money. Hope the problem is not as severe, worst comes to worse buy a new turbo, rebuild that one and sell it.

[dezod]

Contact precision with a copy of your invoice from us, and you should be ok so long as your within the 1 year. Mike B is our rep there. Ask for him.

[FoSho]

Ya well I was expecting problems from the get go but damn man. I bought only the best, I research this shit for 3 years, got all the goodies.....I've gone through 2 clutches, 1 power steering rack, 2 transmissions, 2 sets of axles, downpipe pullls away continously & will not stop rubbing subframe.
The list just keeps growing.....It just sucks to work on cars all day & then have my POS that doesn't work at the end of the day. I spend so much time helping everyone else I never have time to help myself.

One still on the back of my mind is the bucking feeling. I've felt that on engine that are about to lock up. I'm also seen turbo cars where the motor went and puff that kinda smoke, although they are usually boosting. I was just driving along. I'm gonna do a compression test. If the motor is toast I'm gonna cry!

Thanks, Dezod

Off to go inspect the damage........will post up shortly

[Boilermaker1]

You need a restrictor to keep the pressure down. Edwin blew a journal bearing turbo the same way.
Depending on the price of the turbo, it may or may not be economically sensible to rebuild it (probably $200-300 with the labor and rebalancing of the shaft), you may just want to replace it.
If its warrantied... there you go, but the lack of a restrictor may come back to bite you about that.

Oh Clint..... mine gave out because I over ran it..... turned out that I had an exhaust leak between the manifold and the turbine flange..... I was spewing gasses out and the thing was fighting too hard to make boost.

[FoSho]

woohoo, ok better news.

I looked at the car today after work. Coolant good, oil good (slightly darken than this morning,) plugs look decent,coolant pressure test held, compression check brought 180 on all cylidners!! Perfect! All Oil lines are good, return is good, I didn't have time to check the charge piping for oil residue.

What I did find. My PCV catch can was absolutely full! I hit the drain valve & a shit load of oily/fuel liquid came out, followed by alot of water, then some yellow foam (condensation,) plus to add a tad bit of ice. So i cleaned all that up. Started car and is still smoking. Ran her in the stall for awhile until warm. Smoked alittle at idle & then disappeared completely.

I went for a test drive & no smoke. I boosted in 1st & 2nd...hit boost, spun tires into 3rd..........very large puff of smoke, but not a freight train trail like this morning. When I got back to work it smoked more at idle, after 10 mins of idle the smoke is gone. So I felt very good.

I drove her home & beat her up good. Smoked only when boosted, then continued to smoke lightly for a tad. Then completely smoke free. I pull up at the house & no smoke @ idle. Rev it up and no smoke.

Now, compared to this morning. I didn't even boost, the entire road behind me was full of white smoke!!!! So the smoke is cut in half.....now the watery mixture does explain the white smoke,

So my theory right now is my pcv can being full. I started thinking maybe I better redo my catch can. I have the stock PCV drilled out when a hose to the catch can, the catch can is vented, then the other hose goes to the top of the valve cover. I pulled the top valve cover hose & found alot of pressure being exerted. So I'm thinking it pulled all the gunk in my catch can into the motor & burned it............my only theory right now, or turbo seals.

I think if in deed my oil seals were out it would smoke like a freight train all the time!!! Even at idle.

My exhaust is also full of an oily sludge kinda. Not sure from being a tad rich or from this morning.

For right now I'm just gonna keep driving her until I can burn all that gunk out or until the turbo blows(I think boilers right about warranty, no restrictor, no go)...........p.s. if turbo seals were blown, would I still be able to make boost?

As far as an oil restrictor goes...here's one I seen at atp turbo......where should I install, at turbo, at split??? Dezod........why no restrictor in kit?
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=BCS

[FoSho]

Ok, so I am now offically smoke free....

Went for another test drive. Never smoked at all during idle or cruise. Only WOT under full boost it would shoot out a large cloud. Under partial throttle boost, nothing. After about 5 WOT run through the gears I am smoke free completely.....I pulled over & checked my exhaust...nice clean smell, alittle gassy, no more ranchy burnt smell. I also noticed alot of water vapor & the same yellow foamy condensation. So I definitely believe it was the catch can overflowing.

I believe the turbo is ok for now. I will really be sure in the morning when I can cleary see. Kinda hard to boost, clance at all gauges, watch road, watch for icy patches, & watch for smoke. I gave her hell & she never studdered..........boost is responsive & powerful.........fingers crossed turbo is ok!

A+++ news.....I went from see 5 digit numbers & dollar signs flashing in front of my eyes all day

[greeen01civic4d]

i just read every word in this thread, and went from oh shit, to holy cow, to phew, im relieved for you man, congrats on figuring it out, now get that restrictor, and take care of ur turbo, u may even want to disasemble it and clean it with some carb cleaner and get some of that excess oil out, especially if ur having sludgy build-up in your exhaust, i gaurantee its in the turbo too, clean it now before its too late

[FoSho]

No shit, this day has been crazy! I went from yelling at my car about to cry to jumping up & down giggling like a school girl! If this is what caused it we all have something to learn from my mistake....turbo cars require absolutelty no flaws in maintenace, all unattended to things will shine bright with boost


Green, I think I will take it apart & clean it up. I really wanna paint my snail it prevent that nasty rusty, it makes a turbo look like junk. I'm gonna copy Clints methods I like the baking part. My girlfriend will love that next to her cookies!

I saw the smoke & braced myself for engine lock up! I was no nervous all day, waiting to find out how much it was gonna cost......I hope she drives good tomorrow. Thanks for all the advice guys. I had a few more rap up questions.

- How should I run my pcv correctly? Take one tube & introduce it into the pre-turbo intake & filter the valve cover? Clint! Que in on this! Link me your pcv write up, I am lazy..
- What is one sure fire way to test oil seals...take off charge pipe & check for oil?
- When I do get an oil restrictor, where should I locate it in the lines?
- Does the oil restrictor listed previously on atpturbo suit my needs?

P.S. Dezod, even though my seals may be ok. Why no restrictor in oil line kit? What have you guys seen with your cars before? I expect a good answer...haha

[Boilermaker1]

Well i'm glad to hear its ok for now.....
depending on the size of the feed line, you may not need the restrictor orifice. The smaller the line, the less pressure runs through it, so if its a -3 line, the rumor seems to be you dont need one, with a -4 feed you do.
When you take it all apart, you'll have your definite answer. Stick a finger in the exhaust ports and feel for oil.
If you find it, its from the engine, if its only in the DP, its the turbo. Be careful spraying degreasers on the turbo.... the oil seal is a film, you dont want to break it up with degreaser. Its hot, just let it burn out.

[speedfoos]

I'll hit you when I get back from work as I've changed my PCV setup around a little bit lately as I play with it. Good to know she's not busted though!

[FoSho]

Well, no smoke this morning at all. I think I'm ok for now. I wonder what size oil feed the dezod kit comes with. I am assuming -4..............I'll have to tear it down & look at the turbo for good. I assume my seals are fine since it doesn't coat the road in smoke anymore. Boost is still there aswell. I'm probably gonna do another oil change just be safe........just did one 1 week ago

What kinda of pcv system do you have running Boiler?

[dezod]

So you PCV system was full huh?

[Boilermaker1]

What kinda of pcv system do you have running Boiler?

I'm just dumping hoses out in the fenderwell. I have a catch can, just never got around to installing it. Nothing seems to ever blow out of those lines though, they're always dry, which I suppose is a good thing. If the can filled up and you sucked crud back in that would pressurize the crankcase (blocking the vent) and blow oil up into the cylinders.... that would have made the smoke problem.
Just check it out.

[FoSho]

Yes sir catch can full.

I was gonna run a hose to preturbo inlet & filter the valve cover. I think that will introduce the gunk into my turbine though. I don't want that. Those suckers spin crazy rpms...i would think any unbalance on the blades would not be good.

I'm pretty sure it happen when on decel. On decel I bet engine pulled vacuum, pulled all the gunk into the motor. Explains white smoke.

Paul............do I not need an oil restrictor? What are your experiences with this on the D17?

[speedfoos]

What I've done for my PCV and catch can setup is just run both the crankcase line and VC vent line into a T which both go into the the catch can. I used to have the catch can pull vacuum from my turbo inlet, but saw a film in there (in spite of my baffling and stuffing the can) so I pulled the line of the intake tube and stuck a filter on the can instead. Much safer and she still collects fluid and vapors this way. Since my HG is leaking, I create enough condensation that I have to empty the can about every 10 days.

FoSho, since your catch can fills up with oily, nasty, watery shit like mine, and Justin's doesn't (if he had one - lines are dry), I would suspect that you still have a slightly leaky HG - and possibly a little head warpage - which causes the condensation, and the coolant push.

One thing I've noticed though since I disconnected the catch can line from the turbo inlet. No more P1106 Baro Pressure code. Coincidence, I don't think so.

[FoSho]

ok so....I would just to connect the crankcase line with the v/c line. Use a t splice into one port on my catch can. The other port I would block off, and I already have a breather on the can. Is this correct?

Thats the first time I have seen that watery mix in the can. Put yes true, I do believe my headgasket leaks. Only @ long highway speeds or constant boost for hours. Then off course I get coolant push. Sometimes it does suck it back up though. I seriously doubt the head is warped. It only leaks on the gasket at extended heat up/ highway speeds, or boost pressure. Every car I have ever seen with a warped head barely runs. They usually tow into my shop. I have only seen 1 or 2 cars come running into my shop with head warped. Most headgaskets tow in aswell, regardless of the head being warped.

My car ran great in 110 degree weather w/ a/c on. It would only start to overheat when it pushed so much coolant out. I would always catch it before the needle moved even a tad. That only happened twice, which I correct by turning the a/c button off.

I rarely have a problem now. New headgasket & studs should be my remedy.
Passes all pressures tests, leak down tests, coolant is in great shape, I stick a boroscope camera down her throat weekly and never see any leakage, no coolant on plugs, and she never overheats!!!

[dezod]

Originally Posted by FoSho

Yes sir catch can full.

I was gonna run a hose to preturbo inlet & filter the valve cover. I think that will introduce the gunk into my turbine though. I don't want that. Those suckers spin crazy rpms...i would think any unbalance on the blades would not be good.

I'm pretty sure it happen when on decel. On decel I bet engine pulled vacuum, pulled all the gunk into the motor. Explains white smoke.

Paul............do I not need an oil restrictor? What are your experiences with this on the D17?

Nope. Never ran a restrictor on one D17 kit so long as we made them.

[speedfoos]

What's odd is my GT30 came with one already on the oil port of the turbo. Not that Paul snuck it on the there after getting it from Garrett, but the manufacturer shipped it with one.

[dezod]

Originally Posted by speedfoos

What's odd is my GT30 came with one already on the oil port of the turbo. Not that Paul snuck it on the there after getting it from Garrett, but the manufacturer shipped it with one.

Garrett BB turbos come with them from Garrett due to the overly sensitive needs of the CHRA.

[Civicman1988]

that sucks. The turbo is the very last thing i am buying so if its blown i can get a new one free of charge