[MajinB]

dude its cause they can afford it/got sponsored. give me a break. if i had 2k to drop on a ECU then i would get the EMS. duh. not everyone can afford it.

[Hwoody77]

Originally Posted by XSRCivic

there's a reason why so many turbo/all motor guys go with stand alone units. Even those with "mild" setups use the EMS. It will produce more power over the emanage anyday. Ask Andyman97,SuperMex & 02fpcivic our 3 top turbo members why they switched to the EMS.

Prove it.

Of course an EMS is better unit and will ultimately gain more power. I am not denying that.

The reason people switch to standalone is because they have more extreme set-ups, bigger injectors and more boost.

Now in MY case, which is my argument, I don't need an EMS. And yes, an EMS might gain a tad bit more power in MY case, it would not be worth the extra money.

I don't see how an EMS can do THAT much more power.

I'm talking basic mechanics here.

If engine one does 12.0 AFR throughout the powerband on a boosted motor with an EMS and the same engine does 12.0 AFR throughout the powerband on a standalone the horsepower will be the same. To tell me it won't be is denyng basic logic.

For example.

Let's say Injector A requires 5 V of power to run @ 100% Duty Cycle, which will give you a nice 12.0 AFR throughout the powerband (This would almost never apply in real life, but just for arguments sake). This is on a EMS.

Now, without changing the parameters I want to acheive the same effect with a piggyback.
So I need to get it to 5V to acheive that 12.0 AFR.

5V is 5V no matter what, it dosen't matter if it hacked, or modified, who cares you are doing the same thing.


It's the OTHER features that an EMS has that allow it to give more power.
BUT in a midly built D17, like MINE, you won't see much of a power gain.

the difference in a 12.5 afr on the emanage and 12.5 afr on the ems is a consistant afr one where the computer isnt consistantly trying to over and under compensate becasue its doesnt get a real reading just a hacked signal

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Do you know what Closed loop is?

One more time, in closed loop the factory ECU does not "Over and under compensate". Is it THAT HARD to understand?

[SODJAZERO]

so, have you encountered any problems of the ecu causing conflicts with the emanage?

[familycar]

Originally Posted by Hwoody77

Prove it.

Of course an EMS is better unit and will ultimately gain more power. I am not denying that.

The reason people switch to standalone is because they have more extreme set-ups, bigger injectors and more boost.

Now in MY case, which is my argument, I don't need an EMS. And yes, an EMS might gain a tad bit more power in MY case, it would not be worth the extra money.

I don't see how an EMS can do THAT much more power.

I'm talking basic mechanics here.

If engine one does 12.0 AFR throughout the powerband on a boosted motor with an EMS and the same engine does 12.0 AFR throughout the powerband on a standalone the horsepower will be the same. To tell me it won't be is denyng basic logic.

For example.

Let's say Injector A requires 5 V of power to run @ 100% Duty Cycle, which will give you a nice 12.0 AFR throughout the powerband (This would almost never apply in real life, but just for arguments sake). This is on a EMS.

Now, without changing the parameters I want to acheive the same effect with a piggyback.
So I need to get it to 5V to acheive that 12.0 AFR.

5V is 5V no matter what, it dosen't matter if it hacked, or modified, who cares you are doing the same thing.


It's the OTHER features that an EMS has that allow it to give more power.
BUT in a midly built D17, like MINE, you won't see much of a power gain.




You have no idea what you are talking about.

Do you know what Closed loop is?

One more time, in closed loop the factory ECU does not "Over and under compensate". Is it THAT HARD to understand?

but at part throttle the ecu isnt in closed loop. just at WOT. and at part throttle that is where a real tune from an EMS comes into play with MAPS. a hacked signal doesnt give a consistant afr at least no where near the EMS. as in a previous post in this thread which i am not going to explain again it takes an undercompensation for the sensor to make an adjustment then it over compensates. that is the bottom line. and as i stated many many times now it may not be your choice but several times now you have stated it wont give a better tune. now in your past post you say it will. so which is it? it seems you cant even make up your mind let alone understand why there is a difference. oterwise everyone would run emanage on every vehicle and ther would be no need for stand alone units. your fighting a dead horse man and now you back peddling from your previous statements. and trying to correct an emanage user XSR. you want proff go look it up. we dont need to provide you the info we had to learn and look it up ourselves. so you go post in every thread that other users have posted in showing dyno number difference going from emanage to EMS and gained power and tell them its BS. you arent doing anything here besides making yourself look dumb by trying to argue with fact. and after its been said by numerous people you are retracting your statement but still want to argue. what is your deal man????

[ncirom2003]

Originally Posted by familycar

it probably is, but that doesnt mean you cant get more power out of an EMS tune than you can with a emanage tune. which is his whole argument and is incorrect. its a stand alone for a reason it is a much better way of tuning and that is a given. his whole trip is he cant get more power by tuning with a EMS which is complete bull shyt. not to mention that 95% of people who do end up boosting also end up turning up the boost after a while. taking that into consideration if you looking for more power than EMS is the best option especially considering that becasue of the fine tuning it will allow ytou to increase the boost higher than the emanage will allow you to tune. there are only so many sensor adjustments you can make. a map is a way better way of tuning. that is why i am just not going to argue with the guy. he knows all so who am i to correct him? LOL

are you referring to me? because if so you need to chill out and re-read my post.

[familycar]

Originally Posted by ncirom2003

are you referring to me? because if so you need to chill out and re-read my post.

no no that is too hwoody77

[Hwoody77]

and at part throttle that is where a real tune from an EMS comes into play with MAPS. a hacked signal doesnt give a consistant afr at least no where near the EMS.

Ok, you are contradicting yourself.

You said

becasue of the fine tuning it will allow ytou to increase the boost higher

you will gain more power with a EMS tune rather then the emanage.

witched from emanage to ems and saw a significant increase in power

you can see if the afr how its always over and under compensating

will not give a linear fuel curve because the emanage cant give the right adjustment it always over compensates

and you can clearly see through a dyno or datalog how much smoother and better a stand alone is.

Ok.

What are you talking about?

You are making no sense.
Because of fine tuning you can increase the boost levels, now that is pretty much only done at WOT.
Adjusting fuel at anything other than WOT will not allow you to increase boost levels.

Then you say

but at part throttle the ecu isnt in closed loop.

But I'm not talking about part throttle, last time I checked I'm talking about making power at WOT, and obviously you aren't either because you said

and you can clearly see through a dyno or datalog how much smoother and better a stand alone is.

And when a car is dynoed that is WOT.

Guess what buddy. A dyno chart is for tuning at WOT, where if you know what you are doing you will can get a consistent AFR whether you use an E-Manage or an EMS. Which is my original argument.

but at part throttle the ecu isnt in closed loop. just at WOT. and at part throttle that is where a real tune from an EMS comes into play with MAPS. a hacked signal doesnt give a consistant afr at least no where near the EMS

Ok so now your talking about part throttle again...where EVERY ECU over and under compensates. Your factory ECU does it, your Piggybacked ECU does it, and guess what...so does the EMS!

it seems you cant even make up your mind let alone understand why there is a difference

Maybe you should learn the different between WOT, closed loop, open loop, part throttle and what your ECU is doing during those times.


Now.

I've been on these forums for WAY longer then you have. So don't tell me

we dont need to provide you the info we had to learn and look it up ourselves

Because I've read it all.

showing dyno number difference going from emanage to EMS and gained power and tell them its BS

Why don't you show me where someone gained power from just switching a E-Manage to standalone in a EM2 on this forum.
You can't, I promise.



So to recap.

I am stating WOT tuning, which is where people tune at.

You are saying that an EMS is better then an E-Manage because it dosen't over and under compensate...

But that's not what's happening at WOT.

So then you say part throttle, but people don't dyno at part throttle...?


BTW you still have avoided answering anything about the following wrong statements.

"the ultimate isnt too much differnt than its predecessor blue, besides having a few more options. the way it hacks the signal is still the same"

"plenty of people that have tried the emanage have relayed that they we unsucessful in raising the rev limiter as well as people like DEZOD"

BTW...

ultimate will not give a linear fuel curve because the emanage cant give the right adjustment it always over compensates and then has to correct the over compensation and undercompensate. this is the way a PIGGYBACK works. and you can clearly see through a dyno or datalog how much smoother and better a stand alone is.

This is how ALL ECUs work buddy.

AND I haven't backpeddled anywhere in this thread. Go reread what I wrote and then go read some more on ECUs so you can understand how they work.

[MajinB]

damn guys what a way to kill his thread.

[familycar]

seriously, i am tired of fighting its getting really old to sit and have to repeat myself time and time again its old. so im done , its not worth it you do what you want. that is how its going to be any way and the original argument has now been skewed becasue he doesnt like to be wrong. he is doing everything he can to make me look like the one who is wrong when this whole arugment started because he says you cant get a beter tune with EMS than you can with emanage. so since we all know that is wrong i am not going to participate in this any more. its worse than talking to a 3yr old which i am used to considering i have one.

[Hwoody77]

Originally Posted by familycar

seriously, i am tired of fighting its getting really old to sit and have to repeat myself time and time again its old. so im done , its not worth it you do what you want. that is how its going to be any way and the original argument has now been skewed becasue he doesnt like to be wrong. he is doing everything he can to make me look like the one who is wrong when this whole arugment started because he says you cant get a beter tune with EMS than you can with emanage. so since we all know that is wrong i am not going to participate in this any more. its worse than talking to a 3yr old which i am used to considering i have one.

Surrender noted.

[ncirom2003]

its worse than talking to a 3yr old which i am used to considering i have one.

owned

Surrender noted

counter-owned

[MajinB]

Originally Posted by ncirom2003

owned


counter-owned

[familycar]

Originally Posted by Hwoody77

Surrender noted.

the only thing i surrendered are deez nutz on your chin, as i stated before i am not going to continue to repeat myself. it honestly feels like i am talking to my 3yr old. all you want to do is argue and its not even about the same subject. you keep trying to change things up so you can seem like you right but the fact will remain the a EMS tune> emanage tune any day any time 24/7/365!!!

[ncirom2003]

so on leap years, which one is better?

[familycar]

i find that as long as your in the leap year it doenst effect anything but if your not then it changes everything sometimes