Forced Induction and SwapsPost information/questions about Forced Induction methods (Turbos & Nitrous Oxide) and swaps here.
Welcome to civicforums.com!
Welcome to civicforums.com.
You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to start new topics, reply to conversations, privately message other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join civicforums.com today!
functions of EMS> any function that emanage can provide
the bottom line is you can tune a piggyback but its just that a piggyback you will never have full control and creat correct fuel and ignition maps or raise the rev limiter with out the EMS. you can modify signals all day long but nothing compares to the real thing
To remove this ad, register today for free or log in if already registered!
Sponsored Links
To avoid seeing this ad in our forum please register at CivicForums.com
By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features.
functions of EMS> any function that emanage can provide
the bottom line is you can tune a piggyback but its just that a piggyback you will never have full control and creat correct fuel and ignition maps or raise the rev limiter with out the EMS. you can modify signals all day long but nothing compares to the real thing
Obviously.
But I don't think you NEED full control on a boosted EM2 unless it's an extreme set-up.
And who says you can't raise the rev limiter with out the EMS?
"Modifying signals" can get 90% of the people on this website their desired and attainable results.
So the E-Manage Ultimate does everything I NEED it to do, plus more.
I don't NEED to spend anywhere close to $1600 to get the effect I want.
And who says you can't raise the rev limiter with out the EMS?
"Modifying signals" can get 90% of the people on this website their desired and attainable results.
plenty of people that have tried the emanage have relayed that they we unsucessful in raising the rev limiter as well as people like DEZOD. you have to think how good a tune really is whith a modified signal. basically you hacking the computers signals to make it read what you want. the problem with this is you will never have a linear fuel curve. you not actually changing any maps nor creating you own. so what happens is the computer is running off of stock maps with a piggy back modifying the signal the computer is reading, this does not allow you to fully tune the computer. all the sensors run off of voltage we will say -5/+5 volts. now the emanage will adjust off of the amount of voltage it recieves but only in certain increments causing an inconsistant map. it cant read say .25 volt increments so when it makes its adjustment its over or under compensating and constatnly trying to correct the signal inlike a stand alone unit. you will gain more power with a EMS tune rather then the emanage. and you will have more options to choose from allowing for a better tune all together. i believe that our rev limiter is controlled by ignition cut and that is triggered by the cam and crank sensors which cannot be modified or the vehicle will nto run correctly. if you have raised your rev limiter with the ultimate then please post a video of it. i have yet to see anyone accomplish this and would like confirmation since its been asked a millions times in this thread and you seem to just conviently disregard the question
plenty of people that have tried the emanage have relayed that they we unsucessful in raising the rev limiter as well as people like DEZOD. you have to think how good a tune really is whith a modified signal. basically you hacking the computers signals to make it read what you want. the problem with this is you will never have a linear fuel curve. you not actually changing any maps nor creating you own. so what happens is the computer is running off of stock maps with a piggy back modifying the signal the computer is reading, this does not allow you to fully tune the computer. all the sensors run off of voltage we will say -5/+5 volts. now the emanage will adjust off of the amount of voltage it recieves but only in certain increments causing an inconsistant map. it cant read say .25 volt increments so when it makes its adjustment its over or under compensating and constatnly trying to correct the signal inlike a stand alone unit. you will gain more power with a EMS tune rather then the emanage. and you will have more options to choose from allowing for a better tune all together. i believe that our rev limiter is controlled by ignition cut and that is triggered by the cam and crank sensors which cannot be modified or the vehicle will nto run correctly. if you have raised your rev limiter with the ultimate then please post a video of it. i have yet to see anyone accomplish this and would like confirmation since its been asked a millions times in this thread and you seem to just conviently disregard the question
Where do I start?
1. The E-Manage dosen't have a rev limiter change, the E-Manage Ultimate, which I am the only one with a Em2 W/ one installed that I know of does. So "plenty of people that have tried the emanage have relayed that they we unsucessful in raising the rev limiter as well as people like DEZOD" does not pertain to what I am talking about.
2. "basically you hacking the computers signals to make it read what you want. the problem with this is you will never have a linear fuel curve."
Yes and no, too lengthy to get into.
3. "so what happens is the computer is running off of stock maps with a piggy back modifying the signal the computer is reading"
Yes, the E-Manage Ultimate is a piggyback, I know what a piggyback is. You would think I knew this already no?
4. "you will gain more power with a EMS tune rather then the emanage."
Although I can agree in certain cases, when it comes to a mildly built D17 I might tend to differ.
5. "i have yet to see anyone accomplish this and would like confirmation since its been asked a millions times in this thread and you seem to just conviently disregard the question"
I never said I have changed the rev limiter, ever. And I did not "conviently" disregard the question, if you READ the WHOLE thread I asked if it was fuel cut. I even said I thought it was ignition cut, I then stated that if it was fuel cut I might be able to get it to work.
show me one bit of BS that i posted. nothing i said was incorrect and there have been people that have switched from emanage to ems and saw a significant increase in power along with being able to tune in higher boost levels. the ultimate isnt too much differnt than its predecessor blue, besides having a few more options. the way it hacks the signal is still the same and you can see if the afr how its always over and under compensating. all you have done is picked apart my post and you didnt even have anything relevant to say. the last time you spoke of the rev change in this thread you said
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hwoody77
Working on it, I'll have an update tommorow!
you havent replied in 2 weeks
so everyone has been discussing it, then you jump in, down my back and start mouthing off nonsense. your obviously not as smart as you think you are, that is why i decided to explain what a piggyback is, and its not just a name its called a piggyback because you not really changing anything just modifying. it may be a newer piggyback technology but it will never be what a true ecu will be
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncirom2003
i thought you were going with the e-manage ultimate andy, too many problems??? either way :tup for having an ems dude!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyman97
Yeah, I just didn't want to fool with a piggyback anymore. I wanted to eliminate the ecu...always compensating and overcompensating fuel and timing. It's too much trouble to get consistant tune and power out of it. Plus, no CEL's
i am not here to fight man, i am here for the same reason you are and posting in this thread to also find out if you got the rev limiter change to function. i assumed not because you havent replied to the question in 2 weeks. just like everyone else i was curious. maybe you dont want the EMS its not for everyone but dont go as far as saying youll ever get as good of a tune out of it as you will with the EMS. its physically impossible!!!!
A piggyback and a standalone try to achieve the same basic goal on a turbo car.
A target AFR, so it the EMS can tune the fuel to a 12.5 for instance, I can do the exact same thing on a piggyback.
So can you tell me how 12.5 AFR on a Piggyback is different then 12.5 AFR on a standalone?
Quote:
the way it hacks the signal is still the same and you can see if the afr how its always over and under compensating.
How do you "see" this? This oughta be interesting...
Quote:
the ultimate isnt too much differnt than its predecessor blue, besides having a few more options. the way it hacks the signal is still the same
Wrong...again.
The E-Manage blue tunes via the MAP sensor. It alters the Map sensor, which is one the biggest knocks on Piggybacks. The Ultimate dosen't alter fuel by the Map sensor, it alters the injector signal.
Now, I haven't been avoiding anything.
I work a lot, so a lot of times when I think I'm going to work on my car I don't because I have other things to do.
Plus the rev limiter is the last on my list as far as the E-Manage goes. I want to get it tuned and running 100% before I go messing with the rev limiter.
And the reason I got aggressive is because you DID post a lot of wrong information.
Quote:
plenty of people that have tried the emanage have relayed that they we unsucessful in raising the rev limiter as well as people like DEZOD
Again, the E-manage Blue DOES NOT have a rev limiter change function, the Ultimate does. Andyman97 never got the Ultimate working, I don't even think he got around to even trying the rev limiter change and if he did he never posted it.
So just who tried changing the rev limiter?
Quote:
the problem with this is you will never have a linear fuel curve
Wrong again. When you mash the throttle the ECUs enter a closed loop mode, Dezod explained in a previous thread how that maybe be adjusted prior to entering the map and I believe it was a 15% change. At WOT the ECU only adjusts right before it starts moving, NOT while you are going, until you let off.
Quote:
so what happens is the computer is running off of stock maps with a piggy back modifying the signal the computer is reading
Wrong to an extent.
The E-Manage alters injector (the most important part of tuning) after it sees the ECU, not "modifying the signal the computer is reading".
sorry man but a target afr is a target afr now how the computer achieves that is 2 totally different fashions. one hacks a signal and the other reads a programmed map. if you dont understand that i am not going any further with you because its not worth my time. and i am not going to argue with a brick wall. hacking a signal is hacking a signal as i stated before the emanage whether it be blue or ultimate will not give a linear fuel curve because the emanage cant give the right adjustment it always over compensates and then has to correct the over compensation and undercompensate. this is the way a PIGGYBACK works. and you can clearly see through a dyno or datalog how much smoother and better a stand alone is.
sorry man but a target afr is a target afr now how the computer achieves that is 2 totally different fashions. one hacks a signal and the other reads a programmed map. if you dont understand that i am not going any further with you because its not worth my time. and i am not going to argue with a brick wall. hacking a signal is hacking a signal as i stated before the emanage whether it be blue or ultimate will not give a linear fuel curve because the emanage cant give the right adjustment it always over compensates and then has to correct the over compensation and undercompensate. this is the way a PIGGYBACK works. and you can clearly see through a dyno or datalog how much smoother and better a stand alone is.
Lol.
Ok, I meant to say AFR, not target.
You still haven't answered my question.
What's the difference between 12.5 AFR on an E-Manage and 12.5 on an EMS?
Fine one hacks a signal and one has a map, but if you can achieve your target AFR with an E-Manage, an EMS won't tune AFR any better, it's not THAT hard of a concept to understand.
You are the brick wall, you answered one of the things I stated you were wrong on, what about the other things I asked? Like you said "you seem to just conviently disregard the question".
so bottom line is ems is better, but its just a mildly built D17, so bang for the buck really puts the emanage ahead in this case. and unless youre really pushing the limits of your boosted d17 the ems really just turns into a waste, money wise.
and lets not claim the emanage is 300, its not worth having without optional harnesses n shit.(i know i still said 300 in my comparison lol)
plus, ems means bye bye inspection sticker at least in MA because every other year they plug into your DLC to check systems and everything.
the difference in a 12.5 afr on the emanage and 12.5 afr on the ems is a consistant afr one where the computer isnt consistantly trying to over and under compensate becasue its doesnt get a real reading just a hacked signal. there is your answer. but i amnot going to retort its not worth the arugment you may not want ems you may not need ems but its is still a better tune and better engine management system hands down and you will achieve a better tune through the ems that is the bottom line that you seem to want to argue about LOL
i think he just meant an EMS is overkill on mild boost applications.
it probably is, but that doesnt mean you cant get more power out of an EMS tune than you can with a emanage tune. which is his whole argument and is incorrect. its a stand alone for a reason it is a much better way of tuning and that is a given. his whole trip is he cant get more power by tuning with a EMS which is complete bull shyt. not to mention that 95% of people who do end up boosting also end up turning up the boost after a while. taking that into consideration if you looking for more power than EMS is the best option especially considering that becasue of the fine tuning it will allow ytou to increase the boost higher than the emanage will allow you to tune. there are only so many sensor adjustments you can make. a map is a way better way of tuning. that is why i am just not going to argue with the guy. he knows all so who am i to correct him? LOL
there's a reason why so many turbo/all motor guys go with stand alone units. Even those with "mild" setups use the EMS. It will produce more power over the emanage anyday. Ask Andyman97,SuperMex & 02fpcivic our 3 top turbo members why they switched to the EMS.
