Forced Induction and SwapsPost information/questions about Forced Induction methods (Turbos & Nitrous Oxide) and swaps here.
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View Poll Results: Will this matter?
A nice sized T25/T28 like TSI at a similar pice will matter.
Would you ever think about selling the kit sans the turbo? I have a brand new t3/t4 45 trim sitting in a box right now. It is the 4 bolt flange on the down pip and the standard t3 flange on the engine side.
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I'm just kinda thinking the Mazdaspeed mentality here. Not so much as "lets throw a turbo kit together" as much as low boost, fun factor. I'm gonna be totally honest. I know there are people who want to run a million PSI and put 250 down just to say they did it, but lets face it, a lot of us would he happy if you made what I'd call a "rat race" kit with a little turbo that pushed 4-6 lbs almost instantly that didn't require lots of obscene stuff... basically put a turbo on, do the plumbing, make the necessary computer adjustments and go, something without a necessity to make major changes to the car like fuel returns (or any mods to it at all), internal work (besides a clutch) or any of that crap, that would just make this bucket of shit a little more fun to drive around, sold it for 2 grand or less, I think you'd have some happy people. Little turbo, little intercooler, still need an e-manage I guess, plumbing shouldn't have to change much, you can use the HKS manifold if it works and it costs less, whatever else, just downsized to work for fun.
Seriously, I'd buy a kit that put 150 to the ground if it ran reliably and didn't cost a whole lot of money to do, cuz the $4000+ it takes right now is whats keeping me off the boat at the moment. This car doesn't need a lot of power to be fun, it just needs enough to keep the car moving along.
Oh, I checked the other box. Whether or not you keep the original kit out is up to you. I'm all in favor of a reliable ghetto kit though.
Seriously, I'd buy a kit that put 150 to the ground if it ran reliably and didn't cost a whole lot of money to do, cuz the $4000+ it takes right now is whats keeping me off the boat at the moment. This car doesn't need a lot of power to be fun, it just needs enough to keep the car moving along. Whether or not you keep the original kit out is up to you. I'm all in favor of a reliable ghetto kit though.
I second this!
__________________ Me - 2001 K20A2 Civic & 2005 Acura RL
well i fourth it. scince a t4 is a decent sized turbo, as long as thats there a small setup is a very nice thought! 2k for a small turbo setup, shit i would start a turbo fund for that
well i fourth it. scince a t4 is a decent sized turbo, as long as thats there a small setup is a very nice thought! 2k for a small turbo setup, shit i would start a turbo fund for that
I fifth it. I really want to turbo too but when I see the price I think it isn't worth it. Especially because the kit isn't the only thing you buy.. there is a lot you have to do to maintain your car to keep it in runing condition. Tuning, gas, tranny, blah, and blah.
I'm just kinda thinking the Mazdaspeed mentality here. Not so much as "lets throw a turbo kit together" as much as low boost, fun factor. I'm gonna be totally honest. I know there are people who want to run a million PSI and put 250 down just to say they did it, but lets face it, a lot of us would he happy if you made what I'd call a "rat race" kit with a little turbo that pushed 4-6 lbs almost instantly that didn't require lots of obscene stuff... basically put a turbo on, do the plumbing, make the necessary computer adjustments and go, something without a necessity to make major changes to the car like fuel returns (or any mods to it at all), internal work (besides a clutch) or any of that crap, that would just make this bucket of shit a little more fun to drive around, sold it for 2 grand or less, I think you'd have some happy people. Little turbo, little intercooler, still need an e-manage I guess, plumbing shouldn't have to change much, you can use the HKS manifold if it works and it costs less, whatever else, just downsized to work for fun.
Seriously, I'd buy a kit that put 150 to the ground if it ran reliably and didn't cost a whole lot of money to do, cuz the $4000+ it takes right now is whats keeping me off the boat at the moment. This car doesn't need a lot of power to be fun, it just needs enough to keep the car moving along.
Oh, I checked the other box. Whether or not you keep the original kit out is up to you. I'm all in favor of a reliable ghetto kit though.
AMEN! i want a turbo, my car is a DD, i NEVER bring it to the track and i dont street race, so i want a turbo for alittle bit of a kick you know. i would love to put 250 down. but like boilermaker said, i just want it for fun.
I'm just kinda thinking the Mazdaspeed mentality here. Not so much as "lets throw a turbo kit together" as much as low boost, fun factor. I'm gonna be totally honest. I know there are people who want to run a million PSI and put 250 down just to say they did it, but lets face it, a lot of us would he happy if you made what I'd call a "rat race" kit with a little turbo that pushed 4-6 lbs almost instantly that didn't require lots of obscene stuff... basically put a turbo on, do the plumbing, make the necessary computer adjustments and go, something without a necessity to make major changes to the car like fuel returns (or any mods to it at all), internal work (besides a clutch) or any of that crap, that would just make this bucket of shit a little more fun to drive around, sold it for 2 grand or less, I think you'd have some happy people. Little turbo, little intercooler, still need an e-manage I guess, plumbing shouldn't have to change much, you can use the HKS manifold if it works and it costs less, whatever else, just downsized to work for fun.
Seriously, I'd buy a kit that put 150 to the ground if it ran reliably and didn't cost a whole lot of money to do, cuz the $4000+ it takes right now is whats keeping me off the boat at the moment. This car doesn't need a lot of power to be fun, it just needs enough to keep the car moving along.
Oh, I checked the other box. Whether or not you keep the original kit out is up to you. I'm all in favor of a reliable ghetto kit though.
So, in all, you guys want boost for ULTRA cheap. I do not know if we could ever get it down to $2K unless we used mild steel for everything, and even still if it would come down that cheap. We could probably do a low boost intercooler-less kit for cheap.
It does not necessarily take you $4K to boost right now. Our core kit, now is $2875. Pick that up with our catless downpipe and an e-manage, some used RSX injectors, and O2 sim and voila your boosted for well under $4k! The kit is expandable too.
One of the major problems with CHEAP boost is: the turbo, manifold & the oil lines alone already bring us to half of that $2K, if not a little more. We still did not buy: e-manage, the bov, intercooler, clamps and couplers, bolts, materials for the charge piping, then bending it all up, packaging it, labor for everyone involved and now your back up to almost $3K.
If we left out the e-manage and let you guys get it, that cuts a couple hundred off the price. If we left out an intercooler and set the turbo for low boost, now we can do a little over $2K.
__________________ Constantly redefining the 7thgen Civic's performance... Dezod Motorsports.
So, in all, you guys want boost for ULTRA cheap. I do not know if we could ever get it down to $2K unless we used mild steel for everything, and even still if it would come down that cheap. We could probably do a low boost intercooler-less kit for cheap.
It does not necessarily take you $4K to boost right now. Our core kit, now is $2875. Pick that up with our catless downpipe and an e-manage, some used RSX injectors, and O2 sim and voila your boosted for well under $4k! The kit is expandable too.
One of the major problems with CHEAP boost is: the turbo, manifold & the oil lines alone already bring us to half of that $2K, if not a little more. We still did not buy: e-manage, the bov, intercooler, clamps and couplers, bolts, materials for the charge piping, then bending it all up, packaging it, labor for everyone involved and now your back up to almost $3K.
If we left out the e-manage and let you guys get it, that cuts a couple hundred off the price. If we left out an intercooler and set the turbo for low boost, now we can do a little over $2K.
Well let me ask you something though. Why MUST you use stainless? I understand that it looks pretty, but I see no real functional reason that stainless must be used. The use of steel or cast iron I don't think would functionally cause an issue beyond the fact that it rusts, but a Jet Hot coating (customer applied if desired) would solve that. What would molded plastic IC plumbing do (like most of the stock cars these days) I have no idea what an intercooler costs, but I shouldn't think you need a large one. I don't think its smart to use no intercooler. If nothing else, a side mount should be in there, we don't need engines blowing up. Something that covered 1/2 that front opening should be enough to do the job for low boost (like a MS Miata), or even... dare I say it, top mounted where the resonator is under the hood; it could easily be fed from underneath. The e-manage is what? 300 bucks for the gizmo itself? And the goal is to avoid stuff like RSX injectors and crap. O2 sim, yeah ok, $50. a BOV doesn't seem to be a necessity in the kit, given the price variation in those... leave a flange, let people pick or make it a kit option. I'd rather use a DV anyways (no sense wasting boost).
I know, now I'm designing my own kit rather than making suggestions, but I'm just throwing something out there. What does the turbo itself cost? I know thats the big ticket item in the whole kit.
when it comes down to it, it's all about the money. not many people are willing to spend $5000 on a turbo setup for their civic. id love to turbo mine, but with the all the hassell that comes along with that at the end of the day i think id rather just wait for an s2000.
Well let me ask you something though. Why MUST you use stainless? I understand that it looks pretty, but I see no real functional reason that stainless must be used. The use of steel or cast iron I don't think would functionally cause an issue beyond the fact that it rusts, but a Jet Hot coating (customer applied if desired) would solve that. What would molded plastic IC plumbing do (like most of the stock cars these days) I have no idea what an intercooler costs, but I shouldn't think you need a large one. I don't think its smart to use no intercooler. If nothing else, a side mount should be in there, we don't need engines blowing up. Something that covered 1/2 that front opening should be enough to do the job for low boost (like a MS Miata), or even... dare I say it, top mounted where the resonator is under the hood; it could easily be fed from underneath. The e-manage is what? 300 bucks for the gizmo itself? And the goal is to avoid stuff like RSX injectors and crap. O2 sim, yeah ok, $50. a BOV doesn't seem to be a necessity in the kit, given the price variation in those... leave a flange, let people pick or make it a kit option. I'd rather use a DV anyways (no sense wasting boost).
I know, now I'm designing my own kit rather than making suggestions, but I'm just throwing something out there. What does the turbo itself cost? I know thats the big ticket item in the whole kit.
A BOV is a necessity period. How do you expunge the additional pressure in the charge pipes when you back off the throttle?
Plastic piping is pretty expensive to do. It can't just be some generic plastic, it has to be an ultra high temp kind to withstand all the heat. We can do mild steel but it will begin to rust easily. That is why we elect to use stainless. It costs a little more, but preserves the unit.
With respect to the manifold, it would be casted iron (the HKS one).
I hate to say it, but there is no real way to avoid larger injectors because our stock 240cc are so damn small. You would max them out in 2-3 PSI.
With respect to an intercooler, we would use a much smaller one with a smaller turbo. The large one we have now, is because of the much larger T3/T4 that flows sick amounts of air.
A brand new Garrett turbo can run from $650-1000 depending upon model, size, A/R, ball bearing or not.....
__________________ Constantly redefining the 7thgen Civic's performance... Dezod Motorsports.
I've been reading up on this stuff and it is interesting.
I am one of the members that drive a 7th gen becuause it was a "reasonable" decision to purchase. I would like to see a small turbo kit that could do 150+ hp at the wheels for around 2k to make the car just a tad more fun.
Buying a ton of components for a car sounds like a huge turn-off. Paying an arm and a leg for car parts is a huge turn-off.
In a couple of years, if I'm still rocking the Civic and my job pays the big-bucks, I'd def. go for a cheap turbo for a sporty everyday ride.
__________________ -The Civic is a car so nice, we bought one twice.
`01 Black 4dr EX
`03 Silver 4dr EX
-I could always use some rep.
Pagdating ng panahon.
-Member of 7thASR
here is an idea i got from readin DEZODs post. i know your a reputable company, but can you sell used setups? i mean im sure alot of people want to get rid of there shit, you could give us the option of ordering USED RSX injectors like you suggested. maybe some other stuff. IDK. its a thought though.
One thing that might help the total cost is the money on the fuel system. One reason that Stafford's kit sold well was because of a $150 fuel system. It wasn't the best setup by any means, but people ran fast with it. The dezod solution is e-manage and RSX injectors which could come out to much more than the SF kit. Is it better? Hell yes.
Same goes with the TSI fuel system. Another cheap, yet working, alternative.
Just an idea on how to get everything a little cheaper...
