Forced Induction and SwapsPost information/questions about Forced Induction methods (Turbos & Nitrous Oxide) and swaps here.
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I was wondering, if I arm the bottle and the system but dont end up spraying, would I need to purge the lines afterward? I am getting a zex kit for christmas and I will have a purge kit eventually but I will be running without one for a little while. Also did you guys go and get your timing checked to make sure you were good before you started to spray? I just had the valves adjusted and I have an exedy clutch waiting to be put in too so I have most of my bases covered.
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Ok so yeah I'll be the douche that ressurects this sticky that hasnt been touched for ages. I've read all 12 pages. Have a few questions.
1) To spray anything more than 75, additional fuel is required. A high flow feul pump I've heard/read won't do shit, because although is is capable of flowing more fuel at higher pressure, it won't..not unless the ECU calls for it. And the ECU wont. But if the fuel line for the jet T's off the main fuel line, won't the ECU sense this? As in not all the fuel it needs is getting to the combustion chamber and as such it will bump up pressure, adding more fuel to the motor, and unknowingly to it, add more to my nitrous fuel line as well? Also, would RSX fuel injectors aid in supplementing the fuel supply. Powerful Pump + bigger injector load capacity = more fuel? Or does my dumbass ECU not see that it's capable of flowing more fuel and so it doesnt adjust.
2) Another fuel related question, I am not about to get an AEM EMS, KPro/Hondata, or any other standalone system here. I've spent too much money on my car as it is, and I'm going for the nitrous because it's cheap and I don't want constant power. As such, a piggy back fuel comp like the Apexi Neo. Will it work? Can I increase fuel percentages every increment of the RPM range as they claim? And what about when I'm not spraying, I don't want to run rich.. sooo do they have like multiple profiles I can load? I used to have a sprayed i30 back in the day and had a badass JWT ECU that had multiple profiles tied in to the nitrous arm switch. I'm looking for something similar on the AFC Neo, so that when I arm, I can switch profiles, run proper fuel curves, switch back, run leaner fuel curves. Let me know if this is possible please.
3) I think lots of people on this thread got confused between cam timing and ignition timing because I read lots of conflicting info. I know for 100, I'll need to retard ignition to some degree (no pun intended haha). I read somewhere you can't do this since we have distributorless ignition systems. Firstly, why would having or not having a distributor affect it, and secondly, CAN we or can we NOT adjust our ignition timing? I don't think ignition timing is adjustable with the AFC Neo. And I don't want standalone. So if we can't.. ill have to stick to a smaller shot.
4) Building the engine. I have maxilite rods waiting to be installed. As for pistons.. I feel so screwed. JE/SRP want's 500 to do a forged replica of my stock pistons. That way I'll maintain 9.5:1 compression. they cheap ones that they manufacture are like, what, 8.8:1 or 9:1? I don't want to lower compression because I don't want to rob myself of power when I'm not spraying, which is 90 percent of the time. I feel it's safe to run nitrous on 10:1 compression which is what I would like. But JE told me a bunch of gay shit that I would have to clay my engine, give them compression dome specs, and all that.. stuf I'm NOT willing to do. D17A2 reports 9.9:1 comp, which is close enough to 10:1. But I have a feeling the bottom end dimensions are exactly the same, and it's just a smaller volume in the cylinder head that gives it the increased compression, so swapping to A2 pistons and getting forged replicas won't help. Am I destined to pay out the ass for 9:5 forged pistons from JE? Can anyone verify what I'm saying that A2 has higher compression because of the head and not the piston dome? I'd rather stick to stock 9:5 comp and pay out the ass than pay a little less and drop my comp. And lastly, I see some people recommend sleeving the block for a 100 shot. Seriously? Really? I see people sleeving blocks for 20psi + turbos and stuff.. why do I need to sleeve my block? I know darton sells notched sleeves I can take to a machine shop and install.. but.. is it REALLY necessary? What are our blocks made of? Soft aluminum? will my pistons scratch up and dig into the piston wall or something? Because there won't be that much pressure for me to genuinely need iron sleeves in my dinky d17 block. Am I right or wrong?
Lastly! Can I hit low 14's with a 100 shot. I'm at sea level pretty much down in houston TX.
1,2) In reality, you will need a good EMS system such as the Hondata or AEM. Piggyback units just aren't capable/trustworthy for controlling nitrous on our cars IMO. Although if you blow our motor, they are cheap at the junkyard and what not. This decision will be up to you ultimately. I personally ran a 75 shot for awhile with no tuning or extra fuel and everything worked great.
3) You need a standalone to control ignition timing for our cars I believe... dont' quote me.
4.) Since you're not willing to spend some cash, did you ever consider a "calico" piston coating that you could have applied to your OEM pistons?
If you are running a 100 shot, I don't neccessarily for-see alot of cracked sleeves (they are Iron BTW), but I can see you running into issues of blowing headgaskets. I'd look into some ARP head studs to help with this and NGK BRK7e sparkplugs along with 93 octane fuel as well.
I can think of one guy, DJ_MOTA that may have ran a 100 shot for awhile, but thats all I can think of now. Like I said, I ran a 75 shot for almost a year although I wasn't spraying all the time and really didnt' run into many problems. I ran a 14.07 or something like that and elevation correct it turned out to be like 13.8 something. 100 shot will put you into the 13's easily if you dont' break an axle and you know how to drive with juice. This was on a 2001 Civic EX, full weight and drag radials.
__________________ B18C1 Powered 1992 Honda Civic Si
So, after looking into it further, I believe your correct. It's just not..reliable, I believe, to run that large a shot on a piggy back fuel controller with no changes to ignition timing. Like you said, colder plugs and higher octane should help.. but I don't think it'll be enough. On that note, the KPro has everything I need, individual injector control and ignition control based on load or rpm, and nitrous arming control where it will richen up the injectors and retard timing and the damn thing even has multiple "window switch" like conditions that will make sure it's spraying only when it meets all of those conditions. Sounds perfect. But then, the price is $1200.00!! Ack! Man that's expensive. Taking into account the nitrous kit, nitrous accessories, and installation costs for whatever I can't put in myself.. that's hitting near 3000 almost. And at that price, people start lecturing on get a turbo instead. But I like nitrous better, simpler install, simpler maintenance, and the power is there only when I need it. I'm not opposed to spending 1200 for it.. it just pains me to spend it on ONE part lol. Might just piece together a turbo kit and see what it comes out to. Sad, I really wanted to spray 100.
I did look into coatings for the pistons from calico, jet hot, swaintech etc. Wasn't sure if it would be a 'good enough' thing.
Also one thing I forgot to mention in my previous post.. someone said for 100 shot you need a tubular intake manifold? Why? As a wet shot this will go into the intake charge pipe, I don't see why we would need equal length runner intake manifolds unless I was doing a direct port set up or something. Will the nitrous inflow not be balanced on our stock manifolds? Will I be ending up with more nitrous going to certain cylinders or something? AFAIK nobody makes an intake, tubular, or box style, for our car, and if I have to pay for an EMS, a mani, and/or a direct port set up, I'll just by a GE turbo fan and strap that bitch on instead...
Why not run a 50 shot or 75 shot for the time being and save up for a nice EMS. Trust me, 75 is plenty, you will quicker then most of those with turbo.
If you are worried about pistons, I dont' see why those coatings wouldn't be sufficient.
Ignore whoever said you need a tubular manifold. Our throttle body is directly in the center of the intake manifold which I think is better for individual runner nitrous distribution then the side throttle intakes such as the D16y8 B18 etc.
__________________ B18C1 Powered 1992 Honda Civic Si
Seems like that's what I'll have to do. I'll run a 50 or 75 shot until I can save up for the KPro. But with that kind of tunability, and a built bottom end.. i'll be hard pressed to not switch to a turbo setup once I do have the KPro. I really want the nitrous just so I can put down 200 to the wheels. From what I've researched, most of the basic 5-10psi bolt on turbo kits wont give me 200 to the ground. Plus I'm worried about drivetrain issues if I had a that much power constantly there with a turbo. I've seen in real life only 1 civic, an EM2 hatch, that sprayed 100. The thing flew like a bat out of hell when it kicked in.
When considering wear on the drivetrain, you need to consider that the stresses on most of the system is gradual when dealing with turbo/supercharged. However with nitrous, the stresses are very high in an instant has soon as you hit the switch
__________________ B18C1 Powered 1992 Honda Civic Si
Yeah.. its more like a sledge hammer to my rotating assembly and drivetrain, instead of like.. I don't know.. help me complete the analogy. Instead of a slow build up I suppose. Anyhow.. like I said.. will be hard pressed to not switch to a turbo set up after having a KPro.. I've been looking into it more and I've fallen in love with the disco inferno. err. Potato. So I'll stop hijacking the FAQ thread and go start my own, hopefully my questions and yalls answers will help others.
