mrich0908

I need to replace a friends engine in her 04 civic dx . Will a " jdm d17 " motor be a direct swap? As in unplug senors from harness pull motor replace motor with no check engine lights and no ECU flashing.
If not what should I look for exactly.
Sorry if this seems stupid im not a honda guy. I tried searching but im not up on the honda lingo.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

A direct swap motor will be labeled as a D17A1

mrich0908

So this engine is not? They look exactly the same to me lol see how much I know. Whats involved in swapping this motor in the posted vehicle?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/301965925262?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

EX is D17A2

mrich0908

Cool why are you writing me that ? I looking for a DX. And the listings for a D17A jdm.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

At a glance, yes, it might look the same. Looking a bit more in depth, there are more differences. For starters, the D17A you posted up is a VTEC motor, and the D17A1 your friend's car is originally equipped with is a non-VTEC motor.

As far as bolting right up, it should The D17A seems to be much more closely related to the D17A2 (ex VTEC motor) than the A1 with regards to specifications (power, compression ratio, etc). I don't know how well the D17A will play with the D17A1 ECU, if differences in the engine's internals will make it read weird, cause it to run more rich, cause weird readings that confuse teh -A1 ecu.

If you want something where you don't have to worry about variables like that and you want to stick to OEM stuff, find a D17A1 to swap in.

mrich0908

Ive been reading an it seems people use the ex ecu to solve that problem. There are not many low miles motors I trust around here. So Im weighing my options to give her my best possible opinion.
I love my older chevy truck from 1955 to current every v8 can be swapped in. The trucks like a lego.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

If you want it, and use EX ecu, you will need to wire the evtec and also reprogram the ecu to the keys.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

Your listing says Honda civic EX

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

Friend's car, sandro. Not OP's car

mrich0908

Thanks for the help all those who replied.
What going price to reprogram the keys to the ecu ? Would something like link below work rather than the ex ecu?
Im guessing the d17a1 and d17a heads are interchangeable correct? The owners car has rod knock .
Ive been looking for a thread where some one has done the swap does any one have a link to one . I can find discussions but not any build threads.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/For-Acura-In...1UBoNS&vxp=mtr

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

If you use the original ECU, no reprogram necessary

Since it just has rod knock, see if you can find a complete -a1, swap that in, take the head to a machine shop to make sure it's flat, and call it good. That's basically what I did when my -a2 developed rod knock

mrich0908

I own a machine shop. The motors past tolerance. Its the first thing I checked. I would have honed rering and milled the head called it done. She over heated it many times for the past six month blew a head gasket . It drank oil like a 2 stroked this resulted in oil starvation.
It needs to be bored , new pistons rings . Head has been extremely overheat is very warped and every valve doesn't seal. The motor is great for some one doing a full rebuild using all new parts.
Im not making anything on this. Im not looking for a project . Its a good friend of my wifes. SO Im trying to get her into the best possible engine with out killing my free time.
Im in the middle of a ls1/sbc hybrid forged 383 stroker turbo motor. That gets my time every single day and has for a year and a half.
Will that vtec programer I posted swithc the vtec on at said rpm .
Check out my thread if you want I consider it pretty cool.
http://www.theturboforums.com/thread...nd-his-L31-GMC

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

Got it. You know your ****. Very nice.

As for the vtec controller, not sure how well it'd work. I mean, prolly do its job, but how well the electronics are crafted and whatnot may be shifty. The go-to unit among the Honda tuner world is the A'pexi VAFC-2.

mrich0908

Thanks Im quite proud of the motor. Me and the wife laugh all the time we literally mail ordered every part under the cab of that suv.
Yes , I read that the MSD type rpm switch doesnt provide proper AFR like the A'pexi VAFC-2. In sports car yeah that would matter but has any one actually done any dyno testing and tune time ? Wouldn't the ecu compensate for the vtec if controlled via msd? I know not like the Apexi but this isnt about HP just safe AFR so the engines not detonating .
I guess what im asking would it really make that much of a difference on a commuter car that spends most its time at part throttle?
You guys been allot of help Im pretty sure this is the way im going to go. Unless I find evidence not to . Some type of RPM switch and a JDM motor for this girl seems like the best option financially for her best of all I could get it done in a weekend and im not hunting down crazy parts.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

You can run a VTEC engine with the VTEC disengaged, no problems.
the downside is that it will work as a three valve system, not a four valve system, so a lot will be lost in the upper range.

people will also look more for the VTEC also, not sure the price difference between the A1 and A2. Mind you, the VTEC in the 7th gen cars are the E-VTEC unless you have the Si model (they will only switch on the 4th valve on at certain circumstances (higher RPM or loads)

like xriceboyx said, the direct motor swap is finding a D17A1 - anything else will require more than what you want to do. be it ECU and reprogramming the keys (50 bucks when i did several years ago?), wiring needxed, etc, etc. - and the gains... not much to have in a 1.7 liter engine (HP gains are % per liter?)

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

PS: I have owned a 2001 LX, auto (best choice of buying when i got to US), but traded for the 2002 EX manual.

Difference:
EX - E-VTEC (not much of gains...)
higher compression ratio
shorter trans gearing (!)
oil squirter under piston

bottom line - if she is a HWY cruiser, better just keep as the A1 engine, drop one in and drive away. There's too much work already to be done.

meanwhile work on things that will make a difference, change:
- timing belt (they tend to go away - 100k miles - these are interference engines, so they will... make the valves go...)
- head gasket - as she now knows, they go away...
- rear main seal - while it's out
- potentially, the oil rings could collapse - change them - recommendations from our member ezone)
- be aware auto trans are usually among the ones that... fail...
- if not auto, change clutch
- naturally, change all the mounts, including the trans - 80k, usually?
- Josh, what else?

mrich0908

Problem is dollar for dollar I cant find a motor with decent miles. Im not willing to do any more than pull the motor and replace.
I can put a clapped out 150K mile engine in her car that cost twice as much as the JDM. HP is irrelevant in this case. If the JDM D17A made 50hp less than the US motor I could care less and I doubt she would either.
Ill look and have looked for a A1 but doubt ill find one.
Thanks

mrich0908

Sorry to beat a dead horse . Besides the Vtec solenoid is the EX ECU a direct plug into the DX harness? Or does the whole harness need to be installed?

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

You will need to wire the vtec in separate. Never did it, so hard for me to tell, but it was done

mrich0908

So the EX ecu will plug up to the DX wiring harness? Then wire solenoid separate?

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

Got that backwards. Ex wiring harness, dx ecu, wire vtec up to the external controller. My understanding, at least. I'll search around for the dx -> ex diy guide and post it up for you

Edit: just throwing this out there... I have a VAFC2 I'm not using.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

Just a thought. One small issue you'll run into

The D17A2 (not sure about the d17a, but I'll assume it's the same) has o2 sensor connections under the engine (upstream is at the 90 degree bend in the exhause, downstream is basically under the shifter assembly) whereas the -a1 has the connections forward of the engine. If you don't swap to an ex exhaust setup, you'll need to extend the harness wiring to mate up with the d7a1 locations. I've never considered, nor heard of anyone not swapping the exhaust, at least up to but not including the B-pipe, IIRC).

mrich0908

No I have it right . EX ecu , DX wiring .
The EX ecu will control the vtec solenoid and have proper fuel ratio and timing maps.
Will the EX ecu plug into the DX harness minus the vtec solenoid?
Why would any 02 sensors connections mater if I plan on using the cars stock manifold and exhaust ?