MindBomber

hmmm bit of a fuel efficiency drop eh?

+rep for all the info you've given in this thread Sdaidoji

DDragon7

Reading all this makes me want to get one for next year. But does anyone else have to comment on fuel mileage with this cam? Increase or decrease since you put it on with daily driving? Also, what octane you suppose to use with this? Regular or Premium?

MindBomber

A couple posts above Sandro mentioned he's currently sitting at 32mpg city driving, which is what I get city driving without the cam. You wouldn't need to up to 89+ octane fuel, since the ecu isn't changed at all.

Milkey posted a link to a company clearing out the cams for $299, check out his build thread.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

I am still trying to learn the sweet spot for this cam - i was actually revving a ittle more heavier now, since it was stop and go even on highway (...) and mileage shoot from 28 to 32, so all is good. For some reason unknown to me, my car always ran better with premium, mileage as well, so i run premium. Tried 87, but not much difference, small increase in engine temps too.

thanks fer the rep have been a long time since last :P

kal1fornia

I've looked on brian crower and they don't seem to have any stage 1 cames for my k20a3, does anyone else recommend any other brands besides these that are decently priced?

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

post in separate, your engine does not have any relation to this thread, since these cams here are for the D17A2 engines

MandM

Rican, did you ever get your valves re-adjusted hot? If so, could you tell much of a difference?

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

honda tuning makes a good point:

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/t...nce/index.html

MandM

Thanks gearbox. That eases my mind a little. I guess I just need to come to grips with the reality that unless we boost our little D's, I can't expect to smoke the tires down the street.

On a side note, do you think they meant to say "but not enough to matter"?

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

no, they meant to say "enough to matter" because even tiny clearance changes can cause big problems. in any case, a valve adjustment will not really make or break the motor, unless they were really loose to start with and tapping loudly. otherwise you are pretty much taking good enough and making it a bit better. you wont notice any power increases. and if the valves are too tight, you can damage them. there is a happy medium and so long as the motor runs good enough, there are plenty of other areas to get more power. if you want more noticable gains, try the ingalls stiffy torque damper that connects the engine directly to a chassis mounting point. casues lots of vibration and shaking, but noticably more power. i've chirped the tires before with it from a stop in my auto d17. but the noise can be a bit much, like a loud exhaust because the whole car is resonating.

MandM

Cool. I was just curious about the valve adjustments because I installed the stage 1 bc cam this past Saturday and adjusted them cold due to already being in there with the install. Thus far I'm not too impressed with the gains that I've got, but I do only have about 2 to 2.5 hrs drive time on it so far. The sound is the most prevalent change so far. Hopefully there'll be a more noticeable gain in HP throughout the week as I drive 30 miles one way back and forth to work. Thanks for the input and responses. I'll definitely be checking out those torque damper(s) in the future...

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

if its one thing i learned with playing around on my d17, its that the internals are already pretty much maxed out. anything you change doesnt give a decent gain, and sometimes you lose power in different places (like lo end with the cam). an intake only gives 2whp on the dyno and maybe 4wtq in some places but loses between 3-4k rpms. i had a built head, larger tb, and ported header but barely gained 10whp and that was with tuning the fuel trims. you could feel something but overall not worth it and a year later the gasket blew anyway so i put the stock parts back on. just not worth the time. i know the cam got good reviews mostly but ive seen members having idle issues, lo end power loss, etc. there is no miracle cam that boosts both torque and hp, altho the stock provides a pretty good compromise, esp with vtec to switch the cam profile at wot above 4500 rpms. with most of these parts it becomes a game of moving around the power curve and not actually boosting it. most other cars its a completely different story. ive seen an intake swap give 20+whp and even more after tuning. this is just the wrong car to be investing in engine mods.

MindBomber

The dyno sheets and reviews are clearly posted in the thread.

The cam adds a significant amount of power for the cost and there are very little to no issues with idle or power loss, as would be the case with a more aggressive cam. If you want to mod the engine on a D17 without purchasing k-pro, this cam is the best possible option.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

did not see any dynos in this thread. would be curious to see how much torque it makes or loses below 3-4k rpm where most "normal" drivers rev to. ofcourse only a before/after dyno on a stock motor would be useful (or almost stock, with minor boltons). otherwise its not a true judge of the actual power made only from the cam.

MindBomber

The photo broke, here they are again.

Automatic I think with I


5 speed with I/H/E at 6500'


5 speed with I/H/E

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

thanks. yeah see for me i would not even notice a difference driving under 3k rpms all the time. looks like nothing happens until 4k rpms. rarely do i rev past 3k rpms, and maybe handful of times a year above 4k rpms. its a good mod if you like to redline all the time, but i cant afford that anyway.

something also seems wrong with the second graph if the power starts falling at 5krpms. doesnt look anywhere near what a stock civic makes.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

fact - ye don't lose on the lower range, but gains in the upper. And mine have the mileage now at 30-33 hwy/cty mix (haven't driven for long trips to tell how it is HWY only, though. up from the 28 MPG normal so i am pretty happy :P)
when i need it to pull more, it does

maxtierney

iTrader: (5)

Gonna dyno mine within the next month or so. We'll see how it goes. I/H/E, Random Tech Cat, Unorthodox Pulleys, No Power Steering, 8.8lb Flywheel, mild port and polish and Stage 1 Cam, of course.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

I should prolly tune and dyno mine, too, but I'm poor and lazy.. lolol

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

be careful with the underdrive pulleys. they have nearly zero performance benefit and huge causes of failure. the only one you can use safely is the power steering pulley. the alt pulley will kill the alt from overworking it (just as if the battery is low and never charges), and the crank pulley will kill the bearings and goodbye engine. i have a thread about it i can look for...if you are running no p/s, i hope you did the proper way by converting to a breather system and not cutting the belt. otherwise goodbye rack over time.

maxtierney

iTrader: (5)

Yes, did the power steering removal with a loop/breather. Alternator pulley is stock sized, 20 percent underdrive on the crank. Going on 60k miles on the Unorthodox pulleys, no issues so far. Can't say what it's done to overall longevity, but I'm at 170k to date. Fingers crossed...

MandM

Max, I look forward to hearing your results on the dyno. I have the same setup minus everything after the Random Tech Cat. I plan to take mine in the next time I hear about a dyno day going on somewhere in the DFW area of TX. I'm not gonna throw down $100+ just to see 118 on a graph.

As mentioned earlier, this will be day 3 after install, got a 30 minute drive to work, hopefully there will be more computer adjusting taking place. Honestly the low end is just about the only place I can really tell the cam is even there. And whether or not it ever meets my expectations there are no regrets. At least it was a learning experience doing the installation myself.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

here is the crank pulley thread if interested. glad you dont have issues yet.

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...k-pulleys.html

maxtierney

iTrader: (5)

You'll be rolling in it soon enough. Or you can just place everything on black on the roulette table. Haha.

Don't remind me of how little the D17 makes, haha. Hoping for anything north of 130. I'll post 'em up.

Wow, good read. I remember reading this back when I was contemplating the AEM pulleys. I may be lucky so far, but I do believe longevity takes a hit, for sure. I am willing to sacrifice because I have a K20 in the wings. Thanks for the info.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

oh, yeah, we had a separate discussion on the adjustments of teh valve lash, so here it goes for the sake of history (yeah, i know GB already mentioned above, but what the hey?)

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/7...-question.html

maxtierney

iTrader: (5)

Dyno Results

Still a work in progress...
2002 EM2

128 whp
114 lb/ft

Dyno'd with 19s. Lost a bit of power, next run will be on 16s. Baselined @ 101 whp.

D17A2 Head - Street Port by JDM Concepts
AEM Cam Gear
Crower Stage 1 Cam, Springs and Chromoly Retainers
Supertech Black Nitride Coated Intake and Exhaust Valves
D17A7 Short Block with Forged Rods and A2 9.9:1 Pistons
Power Steering Delete with Breather
AEM V2 Intake
DC Sports 4-1 Header
Random Tech Hi-Flow Cat
RS*R Exmag Cat Back Exhaust
Unorthodox Racing Underdrive Pulleys
Competition Clutch Ultra Light 8.8lb Flywheel
Competition Clutch Stage 2 Kevlar Clutch
Synchrotech Carbon Lined Synchronizers
Quaife ATB LSD
OMNI Power Master Cylinder

maxtierney

iTrader: (5)

My next mod will be D16Y8 Intake Manifold.

This guy is running Stage 2 Cam with stock ECU. Idles low, but runs. He is using a K20Z1 throttle body, which may be the difference. He's in L.A., I'll try to pick his brain and/or have him join the forum.

MandM

Man, sure does sound like a lot of work for not alotta gain. Mine has recently been parked and driven once a week due to a rear main seal leak. Thinking about starting to invest into the expensive world of K-Swap over time since I love my EM2, and have had it for 10 years.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

it's good if you don't plan on swapping engine

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

Damn Nap, I knew your bay was clean, but gaw. dayum.