Honda Civic Racing, Street Encounters and Competition RacingHonda Civic Racing happens on the street and on the track. There are different setups needed if you are using your Honda Civic for drifting, drag racing, or track racing. Share your stories of Honda Civic racing here.
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I think the Spec V would still win, that 2.5l block is pretty good at developing large amounts of torque at low RPM...mind you, consequently, launches are harder because revving over 2000 or 3000rpm on a launch will give insane wheel spin.
Not to mention that they respond a lot better to mods...a Hotshot header alone on a Spec V will give you 10+ (-wheel-) horsepower, and removing the counterbalance shaft frees up another 8whp.
The only way a Vic w. a swap would win is if the Spec V driver was inexperienced at launching, had insane amounts of wheelspin and couldn't handle the sometimes sloppy tranny the Spec Vs have.
Like I said, only if the Spec V driver isn't good at launching, which admitedly, can be hard with the Spec V's 6-speed tranny. The K20A2 needs the revs to get going.
The Spec will definitely get the jump off the line, and it will be a fight for the civic to catch up once it reaches the height of its power curve. It would be 10 times worse, if the spec driver can launch well, and has upgraded urethane motor mounts, to reduce wheel hop.
In the end, it really is a driver's race though...
^^^^Yup, smoked my this guys SPEC-V constantly when I had just the swap. Maybe he was a bad driver, I DON't KNOW, but none-the-less, it wasn't too close. Although, his 3 rd gear did pull more then mine.
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The SE-R has a more user friendly power band, but like I said, a driver's race at best...I'm almost positive that the SE-R would get the jump though because of it's torque advantage.
Originally posted by nookiemonster The SE-R has a more user friendly power band, but like I said, a driver's race at best...I'm almost positive that the SE-R would get the jump though because of it's torque advantage.
I mean that they get their max power output sooner in the RPM range. Also known as more torque. The SE-R is a notoriously torquey little ****. A definite contender, and you guys really should give it more credit.
However, I would give the slight advantage to the K powered civic....but like I said...the SE-R has low end where the K20A2 has high end pull...
Driver's race.
Last edited by nookiemonster; 02-19-2004 at 04:33 AM.
Originally posted by nookiemonster I mean that they get their max power output sooner in the RPM range. Also known as more torque. The SE-R is a notoriously torquey little ****. A definite contender, and you guys really should give it more credit.
However, I would give the slight advantage to the K powered civic....but like I said...the SE-R has low end where the K20A2 has high end pull...
Driver's race.
So 160 lb/ft ='s a tourqey little ****? Civic would own a spev v, most people are running 15's that i know of. It even listed a running 15.6 stock (linkspec v stats
So basically you have
200 hp civic @2500 lbs vs. 170 hp spec v @ 2700 lbs.
i can tell you from a first hand experince yes. From about a 40mph roll, had no problem. left him as soon as i hit 5th.
if it was from a dead stop i have no idea, haven't launched in my car, nore do i care. I'd probably say like nookie said, the SER would get the jump, but i think the k20'd vic would pull past on the top end.
the thing about spec's are well i know mine is very hard to launch because of the massive amount of torque gives a massive amount of wheelspin if it is launched from anything over 2k....even at 2k it spins like a mother****** but i think the spec-v would deff get the jump out of the whole if the driver can launch and if its an 04 it will be even harder to catch up bc of the improved knock sensor and shit ive seen stock 04's running 14.8, 14.9 bone stock
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I'm with DIZZLE on this one, I just find if funny when people call a car with a whole 175 LB-Ft of torque to be "A massive ammount". Sure its more then us, but its not all that much.
Plus the SE-R is making its peak acceleration at only 4,000 RPM (whats the redline on those things?) where the swaped civic is making peak acceleration at 6000 RPM. Given those numbers and the fact that the swaped civic is at least 200 LBS lighter then the sentra, I'd say that the SE-R will get the jump on the civic off the line, but the civic will more then make up for it in the long run.
"Its better to make peak torque at a High RPM rather then a Low RPM because then you can take advantage of Gearing"
yeah there is too much torque to get to the wheels. Once it catches though, it is off. It will most definitely take the civic off the line, but it's powerband isn't as large as the k20. Hondas are notorious for low torque and high hp (faster acceleration). It will be close.
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Looks like a driver's race to me. And yes, in the compact car segment 180 lb-ft of torque is pretty damn respectable. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe reading that the Spec V comes with a LSD stock. Getting power to the wheels shouldn't be a problem.
if drivers equal and can launch capably well...se-r on the stop with the civic eventually catching up and passing...just imho..if it was the a3 ide say se-r all the way...however throw alot of mods on the a2 it would be a different outcome where the spec would be raped anything after 2nd gear...hondata bastages =o)
Once you start talking mods, it gets stupid. Please don't get into this. We can talk about how a turbo D17 would rape a stock B16, but then what would the point of this be? The topic at hand is what would happen with a K20A2 civic vs. SE-R Spec V.
Hm, if an RSX-S is doing 15.2 how much faster would it be if it were 300+ lbs lighter?
and I agree with nookiemonster, I try to never compair moded cars. (this case is an exception because I believe we are compairing unmodified engines) once you start tweaking the winner is who ever has the most $$$$
I don't know, talking mods with the Spec V I find is necessary, it seems that a lot of things about that car were poorly designed, namely the header being so close to the cat and the counter balance shafts to reduce engine vibration. Frankly I don't find the new VQ engines in the Spec Vs to be much of a step up from the old KA24s in the 240SX owing to the aforementioned design flaws.
The LSD is a nice touch though, but a Spec V engine w. upgraded header and removed balance shaft will gain 20 whp easily.
I can't even believe you all do not think the k20a2 would win. It would own hands down. I don't care what anyone says. I have seen it done before, stock vs stock. RSX s won every time. Close gearing, more hp, higher redline, lighter car....the civic has all the advantages.
I may be mistaken, but other than the Phantom Grip, which many people don't consider a 'true' LSD, I'm not sure if there is a LSD available for our Vics. I'm not terribly farmiliar with swaps, but were one to swap a K20A2 into a Civic that might also entail switching out the axles, which might make it possible to buy an LSD for an RSX (of which there are many available) and stick it onto the Vic.
Originally posted by dre2600 I don't know, talking mods with the Spec V I find is necessary, it seems that a lot of things about that car were poorly designed, namely the header being so close to the cat and the counter balance shafts to reduce engine vibration. Frankly I don't find the new VQ engines in the Spec Vs to be much of a step up from the old KA24s in the 240SX owing to the aforementioned design flaws.
The LSD is a nice touch though, but a Spec V engine w. upgraded header and removed balance shaft will gain 20 whp easily.
dude if there was a vq engine in the spec-v.... spec-v > k20a2 civic any day of the week
I haven't heard of an LSD out for the civic, but I do believe that you could use one designed for the RSX if you're using the correct tranny. I do know that I had a quaife LSD on my EG hatch a couple years back.
I'd think the Civic would win, but isnt it kind of a silly comparison?
I mean a stock Spec-V costs what? LIke 17 and change, and right now Nissan has 2k back, so that 15k... Even with some options, you're still looking around 17k... A little more than a stock EX would be, right?
And its safe to say a stock Spec-V would beat the stock EX.
I know its a bit off topic, but I guess I think its just a silly comparison.
But I do feel a Civic with the RSX-S engine would win once the cars get rolling...
The guy in the Spec-V would just be better in the pocketbook
)
