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I emailed Levi again. We'll see what he comes back with.
cool!
Quote:
Originally Posted by EM2 RYDER
i already have and i/h/e and clutch and lightend flywheel and i was thinking about the crower stage 2 but unfortunatley i cant afford everything that you have to buy with it ie. valve springs and retainers, kpro. so say i get the crower stage 1 i know you dont need to upgrade the valves springs but would you still need something to tune it with and if so whats the best other than kpro for the stage 1?
No the stage one is designed to be a straight drop in hot street cam you don't need to tune it at all the stock ecu already throws so much fuel at the engine that it doesn't matter. All the cam is doing is opening up the valves a bit more for more air, the car will probably balance out real nicely and be a nice upgrade maybe even run smoother i wouldn't even bother with a piggy back.
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i got a quick question is it easy to get into the 14s with out going "K" i have a cuzin who talks alot of crap cuz he has a 92 civic hatch with a k20a2 and i wanna just show him you dont need a k to be fast. my brother and i are building are cars to beat him or be just as fast with out a k. my bro has a 96 hatch and hes building a h23/h22 motor and im not sure what i need to do. i wanted to go k but like others have said b4 its not that easy just to slap a k on there. my cuzin dont know how to drive that well. his fastest time was a 13.5 and it was on slicks he should be a lil faster right????!
i never said n/a d series would keep up. maybe to you a 14 sec car is slow but thats respectable to me. i think 16s are slow. but not everyone has there nice little expensive car that mom and dad bought them.... there very few ppl out there who actually have worked there ass's off for what they have and i tip my hat off to them but some of us cant just dump 8gs like it was nothing.....
Also Alot of people don't know this including many k owners but there is one fatal flaw in the desing of the K-series.
The timing chain tensioner. it is operated by oil pressure wich is nice unless you stick it on the track and you get into a hard turn and the revs are already spinning high. the oil sloshes away from the pick up(and it that baffle can only do so much) loose pressure tensioner eases off the chain hopps there goes your motor. so 6000 rpm good suspension hard turn and bam! I have only found one company that has actually addressed this issue and that is TODA. not too hard to blow a K.
You are wrong, the issue is with the pickup itself, nothing to do with the timing chain tensioner. Honda fixed the issue for all 04+ K-series, pre 04 guys ususally just swap in the oil pump. The issue was not that big of a deal, and not to evident until it was swapped into cars that could pull more Gs like the Lotus Elise (yes Elise owners find the K20a2 far superior to their engines. Maybe you should fill them in on how much better a built D17 is, they may swap to that). Baffled oil pans are recomended in serious race applications, this goes for most engines, infact for serious race builds a dry sump setup is really the way to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bomerman19
There are k's out there that will beat me and I have driven k series cars and swaped k-series cars but still IMO I have not found a K-series car that is any where near as fun to drive as my car. My car is so much fucking fun drive, that I get sad if I don't drive it everyday. It's awesome!!!
Most, if not all K series cars out there would SPANK you (you may beat a K20a3 swapped car)! I was making over 200whp (on a mustang dyno=~225whp on a dynojet) with just bolt-ons, Kpro, and a tune with my K20a2 EM2. The most I can see an NA D17 that will run on pump gas and stay together for more than a few thousand miles would be 140-150whp, do the math.
And fun?? How can you even think that the same car with atleast 50 less whp, would be more fun. And did I mention that the K, reved up to 8,300rpms? Want to talk about fun, now blasting around with 200whp @ 8,300 rpms with a close ratio 6spd gear box, now that is fun.
I think the idea of an NA build D17 is a neat idea, if it does not cost more than $1-2K it is an easy way to spice your D17 up. But it in no way would compare to a Kswap. Plus if you really like the idea of an NA build and get tired of the 200whp that the K puts out, you could throw in some IPS cams, maybe even a 2.4 bottom end, tweak the Kpro tune and be rocking out a very reliable 260whp/220+trq, all NA. What do you do when the 140-150whp out of the D17 gets old (trust me it will)?
__________________ 2006 GPW S2k-current toy
2004 NHB EM2 w/K20a2-sold
2001 EM2-Wife's car
1991 Accord coupe 5spd- My daily
No the issues is the fact that honda should have just put a regular timing chain tensioner on like on most cars not an oil driven/dependent tensioner on it. It's not hard a metal block with a pin and a spring and you have a tensioner. It is not the pick up honda has used the same damm pick up on all there motors since at least 92 probably even earlier. There are also some more issues with the k-series motor even the new one for starters the oil pump is not directly driven by the crank shaft it has a stepper gear in there so it spins faster than the actual crank wich is great for a daily driven car but when you raise the rev limit on the car it starts run the oil pump too fast and you run into some serious cavitation. also the oiling in the top of the head is weak at best. They made the oil holes too small which is fine for stock cams but as soon as you switch out to better valve springs and a bigger cam you get aggressive amounts of wear on the valve train and rocker arms. the simple answer would be to bore this out but if you do that since the vtec is tied right in there via the oil channels it fucks with the oil pressure to the vtec switch which then fucks with your vtec engagement. so your screwed unless you do that dyntech kit(i think thats who makes it) also no baffle in the oil pan! at least the d17 has a baffle. And dry sump well those are wonderful but pricey pain in the ass to set up and if you try to enter honda challenge with a dry sump they are going to look at you really funny for a long time and then procceed to laugh at you. (most competitive racing does not allow dry sump unless it originally came with the car)
Like I have stated in the past it is a great motor (aside from the fact that the oil system was desinged by a third grader) and I am not dissing it or anything it is just not for me and IMO still a waste of money and once I am done with building NA all the way I will probably go turbo. but definitely not a K. But you say get bored shit I have so many little and big project with this car that it will be a long time before i get bored.
Also the chain tensioner became evident way before the elise guys realized it. It was discovered over in japan by guys like spoon and toda who had the k-series on the track way before any one else. Also you probably don't know this but lotus was the first to put the honda type r motor in not some elise owners it was brought to america and used as a test car there were only about 5 in the us but a california company saw the type r motor in the elise by lotus and made there own kit when they were disappointed to see that lotus went with the toyota motor. with out the lsd, and more weght.
I have built more honda motors than you and know the oiling system better and the inner workings of the K, B, H, F, D series motors better than most of the guys on this forum so save the "your wrong" crap for some one else.
-1 for being just another one of those guys that has to go on! and on! about how the k swap is better than everything thing else, I'm so sick and tired of always listening to that stupid shit all the time
-1 for being just another one of those guys that has to go on! and on! about how the k swap is better than everything thing else, I'm so sick and tired of always listening to that stupid shit all the time
Oh, No you did not!! You freaking took one away from me. I am not going to argue your rederick above, that is not what this thread is about. I don't think I went on and on about how the Kswap is better than everything else, but as far as making more power in an EM2 civic, you cannot do any better.
I have been around this forum in some shape or form for the past 6 years, and have seen a ton of people go through NA builds for D17s, boosting D17s, Kswaps, boosted Kswaps ect. Bottom line if you have the $ the K is the way to go, you cannot argue it. Granted I have seen some really nice turbo builds and some guys are happy with it. I have also seen a ton of guys selling their turbo setup to go K because it just does not do it for them, or it is not reliable. I have no reason to be bias, look at my sig. I don't even own a K anymore.
As far as trying to build the D17 to be something more than it is NA, is IMO as complete waste of time and $. You would get pretty much the same power from a K20a3 swap, which you could do for the same price, and then boost it to get 250+whp when you get tired of it. As far as boosting your NA build, last I checked good NA builds make bad turbo builds, so looks like you are back to the drawing board before you go from NA to boost.
__________________ 2006 GPW S2k-current toy
2004 NHB EM2 w/K20a2-sold
2001 EM2-Wife's car
1991 Accord coupe 5spd- My daily
I am not going to argue your rederick above, that is not what this thread is about.
Did you mean "rhetoric?"
This is a NA d17 thread so lets keep it on topic for d17s. If you want to discuss flaws (or the lack there of) of K series engines then you should start a separate thread. Some how threads supporting NA D17s always get shot to shit and I don't like that.
Some how threads supporting NA D17s always get shot to shit and I don't like that.
I am not shooting anything to shit, I even said that I thought it was a neat idea. Infact I intend on checking up on this thread to see just what you guys can do NA with these motor, because I am truely intrigued, just glad it is not my money. D-series engines have changed very little over the years, if these things were worth building it would be more of a common thing. The thing is everyone already figured out that the only thing they are good for is throwing some boost at because they make pretty good power with boost, and they are a dime a dozen. For NA power the swap has always been the Honda way.
BTW I am not the one who brought the comparrison of a K-series into this thread. I am just supporting my opinion that it is the best bang for the buck when it comes to making these cars worth while.
Anyway, I think I made my opinion on the issue pretty clear, I am done. I will let members who are debating on how to make their EM2 go fast, research and make their own decisions on what is the best way.
And yes I meant rhetoric, you can follow me around and check my spelling in every thread if you would like, god knows I could use it .
__________________ 2006 GPW S2k-current toy
2004 NHB EM2 w/K20a2-sold
2001 EM2-Wife's car
1991 Accord coupe 5spd- My daily
I just dropped 3 grand on a CPA review course last week... money that was going to go toward the car. So fuck me, I'm pretty broke now and its on hold. Son of a bitch...
). Baffled oil pans are recomended in serious race applications, this goes for most engines, infact for serious race builds a dry sump setup is really the way to go. 
. 
. I am not going to argue your rederick above, that is not what this thread is about. I don't think I went on and on about how the Kswap is better than everything else, but as far as making more power in an EM2 civic, you cannot do any better. 
. 
maturity is overrated
