Page 210 = The New Project!! -The Speedfoos' 383 Stroker thread!!

[bomerman19]

^cool yeah the PRB calibration will only work if you have a factory wideband wired into the k-pro for it to read. the PRA uses a special logarithm taken from the European civic type r to run the map but in that case you have to run the primary o2 sensor to the secondary o2 sensor position. I run open loop all the time but there is split seconds in the map were it hit's closed loop so the wires do need to be moved. even though you don't run closed loop. I have a feeling that andy accidentally sent you the wrong map I think he might of sent you the failed wideband conversion map we were messing with. As for your gm air sensor this further proves that there is a connection between honda and gm. supposedly from good source's the gm ecotech motor is made by honda and so far no one has been able to credibly deny this. hmmm good luck with it you got my help any time.

To remove this ad, register today for free or log in if already registered!

[speedfoos]

So yeah. The facts.

The MAP sensor blew out of the IM at 7000 RPMs and around 18 psi, detonation ensued and subsequently caused one of two (or both) things.

1. Bent valves.
2. Damaged rings and/or ringlands.

The pressure had to go somewhere when it detonated. It definitely went up and around some valves, and I'm certain it went down as well, it's just a matter of how hard it went down. My ring gap was pretty large to start with and the pistons are forged so that's two things in favor of the pistons not being damaged. It's not knocking, from what I can see of the pistons down through the plug tubes, everything looks OK. The rotating assembly spins freely.

If it's just valves, I will replace as many as necessary and put it back on the road, a little bit wiser and (maybe) a little more cautious. If the rotating assembly is damaged, she's going down the river as it's not worth the time, effort, and money to build a new short block.

She ran like a fucking raped ape before the MAP sensor blew out. The first test drive only had a minor hitch. Vac driving was smooth as butter, a second gear boost pull into 3rd went off without a hitch. I came off a stop sign, pounded into second and had a charge pipe blow off. So I drove it home in vacuum and put the charge pipe back on and cinched things down.

Took her back out and got on it. Animal. Kpro is unbelievable. Pulling wicked hard, smooth boost transition - nowhere near as violent as the piggyback - I mashed it in 3rd while still in vacuum and the AFRs dipped to 13.5 until the turbo spooled and then she was solid around 11.75 in boost. I did this again and the tires broke loose at around 6000 RPMs. In third. At like 55mph. Wow. Was on the phone with Adam and nailed it again in 3rd and was winding it out at fullish boost (18 psi ish) at the fun end of the tach when the MAP sensor blew off the IM.

And that's where I am now. If I hadn't gotten that short taste of how well the car was running I would already have started the part out. Even so, it took Andy and Adam talking me into doing the compression test and checking the valves before doing anything else. Thanks guys.

More to come this weekend......

[bomerman19]

DAMMMMM!!! If you need my help I'm there for you man.


So have you done the compression test yet? And what are the results?

There is another possibility that when it detonated it did not bend the valves or screw up the piston. I have had this happen before. All I had to do was re-seat all the valves. some times the detonation will just knock the valves off there seats.

Keep me up to date on everything.ROUGH

[bakertime]

Keep hanging on Clint...not worth giving up this far in. Let us know when you get some info on the diagnosis!

[speedfoos]

Originally Posted by bomerman19

DAMMMMM!!! If you need my help I'm there for you man.


So have you done the compression test yet? And what are the results?

There is another possibility that when it detonated it did not bend the valves or screw up the piston. I have had this happen before. All I had to do was re-seat all the valves. some times the detonation will just knock the valves off there seats.

Keep me up to date on everything.ROUGH

Naw Paul, no compression test yet. Once again, I ran out of weekend to keep working on it.

When I checked the lash, #3 exhaust valves had no lash. I adjusted them and kept going. When I was done I ran through each cylinder and checked them again. #3 exhaust valves had no lash again. Re-adjusted and then ran through them all again. Lash was fine after the second adjustment. Got it started and she wouldn't run for shit. I actually had to fill the IM with propane to get it to start (don't laugh too hard, it works!) but was only able to get to idle for like 20 seconds and then it died. Definitely some bent valves at least.

I'll know for sure what's wrong next weekend.

Originally Posted by bakertime

Keep hanging on Clint...not worth giving up this far in. Let us know when you get some info on the diagnosis!

Will do. I'll post back up on Saturday with what I find.

[bomerman19]

sounds like there bent but only slighty not enough to destroy the bottom end. Hopefully it's just valves that would be my guess.

[filipinop1405]

I'm hoping its just valves too. At least you got to feel what it will be like once you get everything dialed in. Let me know if you just need an extra hand with anything bro. oh finally moved into the new house too bro. just need to un pack alot of things and thats it.

[speedfoos]

OK, so I worked on Sugar today.

All the live long day.




Got everything apart, crank pulley off, turbo and mani off, blah blah blah.

Turbo spins freely and everything looks OK on both sides of its blades. But I got the turbo mani off and saw something weird in #3 exhaust port.

Hmmm.




Definitely strange. It's not metal or anything else. I don't know what it is. I'm a little nervous about pulling the head off at this point though.

Oh, well. Off she goes!





WTF is that. Something has gouged the center of my forged pistons. And my plugs are fine.

Time to clean them off and look a little closer.






OK, so they're a little messed up on top, but nothing bad. No piston-to-valve contact, and my plugs are not damaged in the least and the gap on them is fine. Really weird.

Time to pull the valves.....


....all valves pulled and none of them are bent. Oh yeah and the head gasket looks fine too, it didn't lose seal anywhere. This is really strange. Hmph. Well, we can clean everything up and reseat the valves.

Attach vacuum line to drill..




Add lapping compound to valves and lap away.

YouTube Video

Valves are installed and seated just fine.




I checked all of them with a flashlight and no light comes through.




This is really strange. There is nothing mechanically missing in my motor that could have run through the cylinders and scarred the piston faces like that. Andy tells me that detonation will do that but how? There would have to be something phycially in the chamber to be thrown around and mess up the piston like that. My plugs are pristine, nothing missing. Walls are good, nice crosshatch, nothing missing from the valvetrain. I don't know.

So basically, I'll wait for my headgasket to get here next weekend, put it on, put the car back together and run a compression test. I didn't do a leakdown test because they need to be done when the car is warm and since mine doesn't run, I didn't do it.

Oh well, we're going to go see Inkheart with my daughter. I'll be on later.

[bakertime]

Weiiiird. Doesn't detonation usually occur near the outside of the pistons first? For that to be in the center seems a little odd, as it seems me that it's the coolest part of the piston before ignition via the spark plug.

Did you do a compression test before you pulled it all apart?

I'm unsure as to how your map sensor is attached, but did it have any screws or anything that had pieces missing? Maybe something made it in to the cylinders, particularly #3.

[speedfoos]

Naw, I bought a leakdown tester not a compression tester. Such is life I guess. I'm going to pull the pistons out tomorrow and look at the ringlands. Something isn't right, but nothing is missing from anything anywhere.

[supafil25]

Originally Posted by speedfoos

are those marks or what ever they are smooth or gashed into the mani?

[speedfoos]

They wiped out with my finger. That's the head you're looking at as well. I didn't check the mani. I'll have a look at it in the morning.

[supafil25]

was it shavings?

[bakertime]

Yeah, I'd check the mani for sure...I was wondering if the rings contributed also. That seems like the only other thing.

Harbor Freight compression tester is like $9...you may want to pick one of them up! Just used mine last weekend with success. Did you do a leakdown before pulling it apart? I'm asking because if cyl 3 had excessive leakage, that might be helpful in diagnosis. If the valves and HG were good, then you can at least be more confident in the rings being an issue before you yank it all apart.

It's just so odd how all 4 cylinders have the exact same marking, and yet only 1 has those flecks in the exhaust.

[speedfoos]

Originally Posted by supafil25

was it shavings?

I don't think so, there was nothing but soot on my finger afterwards. I'll check here in a little bit after I make my run at all the forums.

Originally Posted by bakertime

Yeah, I'd check the mani for sure...I was wondering if the rings contributed also. That seems like the only other thing.

Yeah, I'm going to this morning. Something is definitely up.

Originally Posted by bakertime

Harbor Freight compression tester is like $9...you may want to pick one of them up! Just used mine last weekend with success.

I love HF for that kind of stuff, my leakdown tester was only $30.

Originally Posted by bakertime

Did you do a leakdown before pulling it apart? I'm asking because if cyl 3 had excessive leakage, that might be helpful in diagnosis. If the valves and HG were good, then you can at least be more confident in the rings being an issue before you yank it all apart.

It's just so odd how all 4 cylinders have the exact same marking, and yet only 1 has those flecks in the exhaust.

Originally Posted by speedfoos

I didn't do a leakdown test because they need to be done when the car is warm and since mine doesn't run, I didn't do it.

So yeah, pistons are about to come out as soon as I find my rod bolt sleeves, drink a cup of coffee, and check the new threads on 7GH and d-series.