mac25

Authored by the great Mindbomb, 2011.
(appropriated by Mac25, 2017; because without a dedicated thread this information is quite difficult to find and quote to the inexperienced).



"I've been meaning to write a fact on suspension cross compatibility for awhile, this thread may turn into that.

Front Lower Control Arms:

A1. 02-04 DC5 Type-S, all years DC5 base, all years and models EP3, all years and models EM2/ES2/1 front lower control arms are cross compatible as the parts are physically identical.

A2. All years DC5 Type-R, and 05-06 DC5 Type-S front lower control arms are cross compatible with each other, but not the years and models listed in A1, as they feature a larger diameter tapered hole to accommodate the larger stud on ball joints used for these years and models. Adapters to sleeve the tapered holes in the control arms listed in A2, narrowing them to the smaller diameter featured in A1 control arms, are available from King Motor Sports for $75.

A3. All years DC5 Type-R control arms are forged aluminium; they offer greater strength, 6 pounds in weight savings and caster gains due to a 10mm increase in width. They can be installed on all the cars listed in both A1 and A2 if King Motor Sports adapters or knuckles and ball joints from an A2 car are used, however this will hyper extend the axles and therefore it's recommended to use Type-R axles (em2/es2/1 would need to be k-swapped). Important to note, when using aluminium control arms you will also need to run a Type-R sway bar or one designed specifically for one, due to the 10mm increase in width.

A4. The compliance bushings in all the cars in both A1 and A2 are the identical diameter and therefore cross compatible. It's been suggested that the compliance bushings found in DC5s are stiffer than EP3s, EM2/ES2/1 since it's a factory performance car, however I've seen no definitive measurement of the stiffness and they are prone to failure like EP3s, EM2/ES2/1.

A5. Front lower control arm and bushing removal DIY available here:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...ushing-install

Front Knuckles:

B1. 02-04 DC5 base and Type-S, all years and models EP3, all years EM2/ES2/1 use the same axle splines and therefore are cross compatible with little or no modification. The knuckles in 01-02 EM2/ES2/1 feature two 14mm holes for the crash bolts, all other years and models in B1 feature two 16mm holes for the crash bolts. All years DC5 base and 04-05 years EP3 use a 5x114.3 bolt pattern, 02-03 EP3 and all years EM2/ES2/1 are 4x100 bolt pattern.

B2. 02-04 DC5 Type-S knuckles are cross compatible, they can also be used with EP3s or k-swapped EM2/ES2/1 using DC5 Type-S or DC5 Type-R axles. They use a 5x114.3 bolt pattern.

B3. 05-06 DC5 Type-S are cross compatible, they could be used on the cars listed in B2 with additional parts (see A2), they could also be used on the cars listed in B1 with correct axles and additional parts (See B2 and A2). They use a 5x114.3 bolt pattern.

B4. All years DC5 Type-R are cross compatible, they feature 15mm longer hubs to accommodate larger brembo brakes and wider lower control arms, as well as a different design of hole for ITR ball joints, they use a 5x114.3 bolt pattern.

Front Macpherson Struts:

C1. All years and models EP3, EM2/ES2/1 are cross compatible. The 01-02 EM2/ES2/1 utilizes 14mm crash bolts, while the 03-05 EM2/ES2/1 and all years EP3 utilize 16mm; to use struts with 16mm crash bolts on an 01-02 EM2/ES2/1 you can either drill out the knuckles with a 5/8 drill bit or order tapered reducing washers from k-sport. The arms feature a 12mm tapered hole for tie rod end studs.

C2. All years and models DC5 use 16mm crash bolts. They feature a larger diameter tapered hole on the arm than the struts listed in C1 to accommodate larger studs on tie rod end, 13mm. They can be used on the cars listed in C1 provided DC5 tie rod ends are also used.

C3. If you put DC5 Type-S or base front macpherson struts on your car, will that improve performance?
The short answer is yes, the long answer would be that it's difficult to say exactly how much of a performance increase there would be and whether it would be noticeable. The DC5 Type-S and base are heavier and designed from the factory as performance cars, so the valving in the struts should be more aggressive as a result. Comparison of shock dynos of a stock DC5 strut and a stock strut from a C1 car would provide allow for a definitive answer, if someone can provide the graphs.

C4. A-Spec.
I'll come back to this later...

Rear Shocks:

D1. All years and models EP3, EM2/ES2/1 are cross compatible.

D2. All years and models DC5 have a slightly wider bushings on the bottom mount, in order to use these on the cars listed in D1, the bushings needs to be shaven down by a few millimeters.

D3. If you put DC5 Type-S or base rear shocks on your car, will that improve performance?
See C3.

D4. A-spec, see C4.

Front Springs:

E1. 2002-2004 base DC5 front springs are cross compatible with the springs listed in E2, E3 and E4. They are rated at 279lbs.

E2. 2002-2004 Type-S DC5 front springs are cross compatible with the springs listed in E1, E3 and E4.

E3. All years and models EP3 front springs are cross compatible with the springs listed in E1, E2 and E4. They are rated at 248lbs.

E4. All years and models EM2/ES2/1 front springs are cross compatible with the springs listed in E1, E2 and E3.

E5. All models 2005-2006 DC5 front springs are cross compatible only with E7 springs, as they are reverse wound.

E6. 01-04 DC5 Type-R front springs are cross compatible with E1, E2, E3 and E4 springs. They use 3.7k rates and are progressive.

E7. 05-06 DC5 Type-R front springs are cross compatible only with E5 springs, as they are reverse wound. They use 4.6k rates and are progressive.

E8. Aftermarket lowering springs rates for DC5s.
RSX Spring Rates Stock and Aftermarket

Rear Springs:
Stock EP3: Spring Rate: (248 Front/440 Rear)
Stock RSX: Spring Rate: (279 Front/458 Rear)."

mac25

Thread stickied for future reference.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

good job!

mac25

Thank you, but A. did all the hard work.

faceless_el

I've been reading this and the post here about cross compatibility with DC5 and EP3 suspension (I have DC5 parts going to EP3) and I just wanted to see if someone can clarify a few things.

For the rear shocks, instead of shaving the bushings down can I press it out and press in the bushing meant for the EP3?

BTW the bolt on the image (green arrow) can reuse the same one that came out of the EP3 or will I need the one from the DC5?

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

If the bushing was removable you could do this but it is not, so you cannot swap the bushings.

I don't see a picture.

Dox

Hi guys... i have a minor question regarding the compatibilty of the tie rod ends and the lower ball joints.
So i have an 2004 Honda civic es1.... and i was wondering if the ball joints and tie rod ends from the Em2 will work without any complications? As im planning on buy the parts either tomorrow or within the week. So a clear answer to that would be highly appreciated. Thanks.

​​

jdenton

mac25

I know it is common to use dc5 (rsx/and Rsx-s) knuckles in the rear for em2 and es1 vehicles.

I'm not sure if you need the dc5 lower control arms. You will need new brake lines, and may need the hand brake with cables from the dc5 since they are rear disc brakes, with a different e brake set up from the drums on the em2 and es1.

google "es1/em2 rsx five lug conversion" you should be able to find the info.

jdenton

Hello mac,

Thanks for the response.

Actually let me share with you my little concern. I'm getting my ES swapped with a half cut JDM DC5 Type R, within the next two months.

My car actually has quite a few upgrades already such as Coilovers and Hard Race bushings for the ES, and more.

As such, my rear bushings are all polys and have low mileage on them.

A while ago I did some deep search over the net for the following clarifications:

1. Can I keep my ES rear Knuckles and bolt the rest of the DC5 hubs/brakes on it?
2. Can I bolt on the complete DC5 knuckle and everything with it, straight to my trailing arm, and, if yes, Can I press out my poly bushings from the ES knuckle and donate it to the DC5 knuckle? Will it ruin the bushings when pressed out?
2.1 And if the bushings are not compatible, I need to buy new DC5 rear knuckle bushings from Hard Race
2.1.1 By the way, both ES and DC5 rear knuckle bushings look visually identical but the Product IDs are different. That concerned me a bit.
2.1.1.1 I have a camber kit in the ES and the DC5 camber kit is identical including the Hard Race product numbers. So I now know one of the bushings (the top one) must be the same. The difference lies in the bottom two.

As a side question, I wanted to know if the new 215/45 R17 wheels will flush my rear fenders. My 195's are close to it so I think given the wheel hub type and the 215's, the tyre will be past the edge of the fenders. From what i've searched I think with fender rolling and some more camber it can flush.

That was the brainstorming I was going through because i wanted the swap to be smooth and quick. I've gathered all info of the front. It was just the rear.
So that's how I arrived at that question I tried to ask the community.

There is a lot of homework that goes into a K-Swap!

Thanks and Regards,

mac25

215s should be fine if the offset isn't crazy.

Might rube while turning it you're lowered though.

Richard Nguyen

Hey Mac! Thanks for making this thread easier to see!!

Do you (or anyone) happen to know what Mindbomber was referring to in point C1 where he talks about the "tapered reducing washers from k-sport"? I'm in the midst of installing EP3 shocks onto my EM2 and am figuring out the best way!

Thanks all!

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

KSport used to make washers that allowed you reduce the 16mm hole down to 14mm. A quick Google search did not bring them up as a current sale item but if you contact them they might be able to hook you up.

Richard Nguyen

Thanks a bunch! I did end up calling them and they did have it in stock still (just not on the website).

Tracecross30

thanks for this great information.

Maxpeedingrods

wow，It's been 10 years but still useful，your reprint is much appriciated.

jhpaulsen

I’ve been searching for information on 2005/2006 DC5 Type R front springs (reverse wound or not) for quite a while. I was surprised to see Mindbomb’s statement regarding reverse wound. Where did this info come from? Can you provide a link?
Thanks in advance for your assistance.
Best Regards

BrotatoChip

His original post was in 2011 and he has not been active in 4+ years.