civicsrcool

yoo. whats up guys. i was talkin with a few of my autox buddies and they told me that i might be able to benefit better handling if i removed my front sway bar. they told me the front sway bar is to prevent oversteer for the granny drivers etc which doesnt have performance in mind. i heard about people doing this on preludes and teggys but not a 7th gen. should i do it or not? i am more into touge style/canyon driving if that helps any.

robbclark1

iTrader: (8)

Just disconnect one endlink and see what happens. You will have less turn-in speed, but better turn-out speed. Therefore, it will "dig" a little more entering the turn, but "dig" less coming out of the turn. Racers say "slow in, fast out".

What year is your car? What rear sway do you have? If you have a large rear sway, you have to watch for snap oversteer. Given the car is FWD, weight transfer when stepping on the pedal isn't as good as with RWD.

Envy

iTrader: (1)

you may notice a little more flex too im guessing? brace the car a lil more?

Zzyzx

Anti roll bars have 0 effect on chassis flex... they are an active part of the suspension not a passive brace.


Otherwise, Robb's got the main part.

Pro: More potential traction.

Con: more chassis roll/slower turn in response.


"Potential traction" because you still have to tune the car to work with out the front bar. Just as you can re tune the car to have the same amount of chassis roll & just as good of turn in response. but then that would require re-tuning your spring rates and alignment.

civicsrcool

i current have all stock sways. but i already have a type s sway bar in line. my car is an 02 civic ex sedan. should i do it or no? im aware of slow in fast out but i was also concerned about daily driving with the bar off. i dont really know when the sway is comin in [its my friends giving it to me for free but doesnt know when his new one gets in] would it be safe to run no front sway with the stock rear sway for now?

oh and i am currently running the gc/koni yellow set up.

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

I had to take my front sway off last year to swap my exhaust to an EX- the front sway hit the cat, even with the shield off. Its been a long time. The car handles the same. I have a 01 coupe so I had the fat 21mm? bar. I noticed the front was actually lighter with out it, because it weights damn near 20lbs. Around town you wont notice anything, but on the back roads or the track you will notice what robb and zzyzx described.

DaddyFatSacks

Bump this thread...

I'm removing my 01" EX's front sway bar too temporarily cause the bushings are bad and I don't want to replace them on a bar I don't want.

Eyger

So then what's the best way to reduce chassis flex? X brace? What's that other brace that you see in the 5th and 6th gen civics in the back, where the trunk is, it's like a criss cross bar? What about a C pillar bar? or that b pillar bar too right? Would all that stuff help with chassis flex?

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

I've heard people really like their B pillar bars, they do strengthen the car up, but I read after a while their doors didnt fit the same as before the bar due to the flex. A front strut bar is going to hold your shock towers together. If you dont have one of those, go for it.

With my front bar off, i've realized the front has gotten a lot softer and flexed more (could also be due to stiff suspension)- even the slight lip between street and driveways you can feel the front shock towers get uneven when taking it at a slight angle. I need to order a bar, just havent had the time to sit down and do it lately.

I'm skeptical for the xbrace. Doesnt it use the same mounting points as the sub frame? If it does... wouldnt the sub frame pretty much already be doing the same job as the x brace?

robbclark1

iTrader: (8)

Do you want to reduce chassis flex or body roll? They are two different things solved by two different types of parts.

We have a coupe with a strong rear end. There is no need for a C pillar bar, rear strut bar, or X brace in the trunk. They all do ****. The x brace under the car just adds understeer as well as the front strut bar. I have had them both and am currently driving without them and I have more slop going into a turn, but better cornering out of a turn.

DDragon7

Words from the wise. Looks like I'll save my money and not get the Neuspeed strut bar anymore.

roll_outz

IF your not Racing your car why would you spend that much money for nothing.. Unles you want it just for the looks.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

neuspeed bar took away alot of the play in the steering wheel. well worth it to me i hated having dead spot when turning the wheel. after driving with the bar for a while, you will immediately notice the difference if you remove it.

stupid question here, does the rear sway bar have anything to do with alignment? cause i put on different endlinks (dezod) and changed the bushings to ES, and the alignment in the rear went way off.

gelshmoff

iTrader: (1)

indeed. I have the stock springs & struts and I installed the progressive front & rear sway. Since then, my bracket kept breaking on the front sway , so I took off the whole front sway bar.

Now I've notice a much looser ride up front. more comfy, in fact, when riding on bumpy boston roads.

So yeah--more chassis roll definately. BUT, i've noticed after I get into a turn, the car is MUCH more balanced . I haven't gotten silly with it yet, but it seems to have much less understeer.

robbclark1

iTrader: (8)

No the sway bar should not affect alignment. The camber arm and the toe bolts are the only things that affect rear alignment.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

unless the bar is binding badly... Take endlinks out and try to move the bar up and down. it should move freely if not connected to suspension in the ends. If resists movement, grease bushings. if nothing else helps on freeing bar, trim bushings (extreme action, though...)

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

+1
I am planning on installing a front brace, but not sure how to setup the suspension afterwards. You commented that it added understeer, so it means i will need to soften the front suspension?
What suspension changes did you do before taking them out? did it not affect the results at all?
In the meantime, i do autoX

Zzyzx

Then scratch any and all of those multi-point chassis braces off your list of things to buy. Unless of course you like competing in classes you have little chance in winning.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

already a underdog DSP...
modded car before starting to run autoX...
Have a stock miata now, since civic is already so fun to drive, but not competitive... Don't plan on taking the civic back to stock (springs, shocks, rear sway, CAI, etc... too many stuff already in to take out...)

Mavrick272

I have an LX which has no rear bar and has a 22mm front bar, if I'm not mistaken. I want to reduce understeer and not have to worry about snap oversteer. Would a 24 mm rear (paired with stock 22mm in the front) be too large?

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

go with the rsx 19mm rear sway bar. its the best for balanced performance

Mavrick272

Am I going to need the ASR brace?
Where can I get an RSX bar and endlinks that will work with my Civic?

Plan B is the Progress 22mm bar... 3mm can't make that much of a difference, right???

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

rsx bar anywhere, ebay, this site, clubrsx, people always selling em. you can use the stock endlinks but i prefer the dezod.com upgraded version. thats all you really need. now this is assuming your car already has a sway bar installed. if not, its alot more work and parts. and yes 3mm makes a huge difference.

Mavrick272

No, my car didn't come with rear sways....so what am I looking at for the extra parts and work? I was under the impression if i got the ASR brace everything would bolt up properly

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

im not sure about that. dezod has the complete kit for you tho

http://www.dezod.com/pd_progress_ant...ar_adapter.cfm

and endlinks

http://www.dezod.com/cat_end_links.cfm

Mavrick272

This project kinda died over the school year...
But now that schools done I'm looking back into it

According to my research I'm going to need the ASR brace and then I'm going to have to drill holes for the sway bar mounting bracket (sounds easy, right??)
Here is the basic procedure, for anyone else attempting this:

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/4...nting-kit.html

For the actual bar I'm looking at the RSX 19mm bar

What RSX's had the 19mm bars? was it the 04-06?
Will they work on my 6Gen?
I'm assuming Grey's endlinks will work w/ the RSX bar

mac25

***Please only remove the front sway If you are experienced with track time, and be careful.***

I saw this thread and thought I would give a definitive answer, since I've been tracking with this setup for a few months now.

In the coupe d17a2 EX 01-05

If you are auto crossing I can highly recommend removing the front sway bar after installing a large rear swaybar.

My car is lowered 3 inches on Raceland coilovers with a 24mm Progress rear sway and the front sway deleted. It handles like butter =D.

Before the front sway delete, running the 3 inch drop and 24mm Progress. I was still having slight under steer problems (It was still vastly superior to the stock rear sway though) that limited me to 100km, at a certain track, before the car would develop under steer, screaming tires and the rear tires sliding. At this point 100km was the absolute limit that I could maintain control, I was limited by the suspension setup, not my own ability.

With the deleted front sway 100km is easy. Scarily easy, I haven't pushed past 105km because I am scared that the car will slide out with no sign of under steer. At this point it is me who is limiting the speed in which I am cornering, not the under steer. I haven't found the car's speed/steering/traction/cornering potential yet.