Zzyzx

Just something I thought sould be brought up... as there are many threads pertaining to wether or not some one should get a camber kit for any particular drop...

I know I've said it in the past, but even on a Stock civic I would want a camber kit. just to simply be able to get away from the crappy OEM alignment specs. and heres why...

The factory alignment specs are designed to do two things.

1. cause understeer to keep you and your grandma safe (because understeer is safer/easier to control then oversteer)
and
2. To maximize tire longevity.

Her's what I'm getting to.... Is there a way to fix #1 and not destroy #2?

I think there is.

The OEM spec camber for the front is 0Deg +-.75Deg, the OEM spec for the rear is -.75Deg +-.75 deg...

Meaning:
Front camber minimum is +.75 Deg
Front Camber Maximum is -.75 Deg
where as
Rear camber minimum is 0 Deg
Rear Camber Maximum is -1.5 Deg...

For performance sake Negitive camber is better(in most cases), problem with the OEM spec is that it runs more negitive camber on the rear then the front, causing the car to want to understeer more. So what would happen if you were to reverse the settings? Run -1.5 on the nose and -.75 on the rear???? camber wise this setting would be much more favorable for handling, and for tire wear... since both settings are still within "Factory" spec you shouldnt have any more tire wear then a "stock" civic would get.

Logical?

01HonderCivic

iTrader: (7)

Well, The thing is...Not really. The specs are different for the front and for the rear. That's kinda like having a 1.8L Mitsubishi block, and a B18 head, and thinking since they're both 1.8L they'd mate. You have to also think of how much weight and turning force is being put on the front tires. -1.5 would eat up the insides of the tires pretty fast if you did a lot of high speed cornering. If I'm correct, even Nascar limits the front camber to -1.8. If this were me, I would set my rear tires to 0 and the fronts to -1, and make sure and rotate religiously.

Boilermaker1

iTrader: (16)

If you want to tune the car for handling, you've gotta just throw the factory specs out the window. The specs are basically to keep the tires from wearing, which, if you want to play, then pay the admission fee. You MUST run a lot of camber on struts because they have no camber gain at all, and the more upright the rears are the less contact patch there is when cornering, less grip, more rotation. Plant the nose, turn the tail. Seems to make sense to me.
Camber eating tires, not so much. Toe eating tires.... yes, and quickly. You probably wouldn't find -1.5 to be causing much difference inner to outer, there's cars that spec this amount and more from the factory.
If I towed this thing around to the track, I may be trying to find a way to put -3 or more in the front of it.

Zzyzx

Perhaps I should be more clear. this isnt to say that the above settins are "optimum" but rather to allow those people who want their car to turn better then the OEM alignment would allow and still keep tire wear to a minumum. Since technially both specs are with in OEM tolerances...

now if you are going for all out performance... Eh, I run over -2 deg camber on the nose and -1.6 on the rear.

Boilermaker1

iTrader: (16)

Well I wouldnt' see a problem with -1.5 on the nose, but its not going to negate the need for a camber kit on the rear, you lower it, those things pull in quickly.... The front is a little bit less significant, you probably can get down about 1.5-1.8" before the camber gets overwhelming, its the toe that gets bad real quick.

Zzyzx

Ya, I was assuming people would buy camber kits for the front and rear... its a good idea even with a stock civic. and a nessesity if you want to get any decent performance out of the car.

04civic07

iTrader: (13)

wow... i have just been enlightened

legacyse

iTrader: (3)

Thinking of doing my alignment after front camber bolt
Toe: 0 Degree F/R
Camber: F -1.25, R -.50 or F -1.0, R -.25?
I might have a chance to use an alignment machine. I'm wondering if there's any way to gain/lose just a fraction of camber by wiggling/loosen/retighten of the rear strut, etc?

Touge Whore

I was always under the impression that optimum settings for a FWD were in the range of, Rear: slight toe out, with as close to 0 camber...front: no toe, with a negative camber range of 2-3......obviously these would be adjusted to driver specs, preferences, etc......feedback boiler? zzyzx?

Zzyzx

For "optimum" handling you'll want to run some toe out on the nose, helps the car turn in. for the rear toe... depends on what the cars doing, if its understeering too much decrease the amount of toe in/increase the amount of toe out. if its oversteering Decrease the amount of toe out/increase the amount of toe in.

For camber, Test-n-Tune, as how much "force" you'll be able to put in to your suspension is really determinied by how sticky your tires are and how much roll resistance you have Camber front and rear will have to be adjusted to match each individual setup.

I guess I mean to say, I cant spout out #'s and give you're car its "optimum" alignment, your going to have to tune to find it.

Touge Whore

That is pretty much the same thing I was getting at, yet I was just trying to give hypothetic numbers for people who don't neccessarily understand exactly what we are trying to prevent/enhance. Obviously, "optimum" alignment specs as I said would be setup to suspension/tires/preferences/etc.....I was just making sure I hadn't been misguided in the past.......

J Smith

iTrader: (4)

****, my rears are -8.0

VTECTypeR

iTrader: (4)

I used to have my front at negative 1.5 degrees. But my dumbass forgot to tell the alignment guy to put at 1.5 again since I got a new alignment. It made a freakin big differnce in handling when I had it at newgative 1.5. Now that its set to 0(neutral) the handling got noticably worse.

2k1_sedan

So is there a benefit to getting a f/r camber kit for 01 Civic with OEM
suspension? Its a daily driver, but I would consider it if there is improved handling. I am hearing different things. Please clarify

so anyone got an answer? This is the first I have ever heard of this...just wondering.

SevenCyrus

iTrader: (1)

yea, if you want better handeling, even with OEM its a good idea, like zzyzx said.

Zzyzx

you can improve the cars handling substantually with a camber kit front and rear + a the proper alignment.

Sart out with around -1 to -1.5 on the nose and run about .75 on the rear,

then start to mess with toe... if you dont mind eating a bit in to tire life.

SevenCyrus

iTrader: (1)

-.75 right?

Zzyzx

yeah, do some where between -.5 and -.75

CIVIC X3

iTrader: (2)

i have a question about the alignment but its not really related to the topic. i'm dropped with a 2 finger gap all around. the thing is i want to drop it to a 1 finger gap all around for a day for the meet comin up. wen i come back from the meet i will raise it back up to 2 finger gap all around again so i was wonderin if my alignment be off and need to go get it alignment again.

Zzyzx

Well.. Unless you can some how raise the car back up to its excact height on all 4 corners... your car's alignment will be different.

dscottb01

Question, I run my ex in HS. What would you recommend for toe-set only alignments for better turn in. I run 710's (205/50R15).