Koni perch breaks...
10-08-2003
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Koni perch breaks... I'm kinda pissed. I've heard numerous times about this happening to the perches on the koni rear shocks. See..the perches that come with the shocks aren't welded on like the stock ones...they just slide on top and this small, thin piece of medal keeps it from going down...this is supposed to hold all 27XXlbs of our si...yeah, okay (LOL, okay, a little over exagerated, but you get the idea).
So here's a pic..the left one is the one that broke, the right one is fine..so far
The arrow is where it's supposed to be
A close up
Thank God I had my stock shocks. So I'm using those at the momment until I get a chance to get the perches welded on. I'm going to contact koni about this..even though I know they've heard of this happening before. I unfortunetly threw away two nuts (10X1.25) that go on top of the piston, the stock one, of the shock. So of course they are out of stock everywhere. So I had to use one of the two nuts on each strut tower to hold the piston in...so yeah, I'm riding around with my two back struts held in the shock tower by one nut each...great uh?
So here's a pic..the left one is the one that broke, the right one is fine..so far
The arrow is where it's supposed to be
A close up
Thank God I had my stock shocks. So I'm using those at the momment until I get a chance to get the perches welded on. I'm going to contact koni about this..even though I know they've heard of this happening before. I unfortunetly threw away two nuts (10X1.25) that go on top of the piston, the stock one, of the shock. So of course they are out of stock everywhere. So I had to use one of the two nuts on each strut tower to hold the piston in...so yeah, I'm riding around with my two back struts held in the shock tower by one nut each...great uh?
10-08-2003
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Rep Power: 299 contact koni and they will ship you a couple of new rings...better material. maybe you can get them to send some new perches also.
10-08-2003
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Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by djmota
contact koni and they will ship you a couple of new rings...better material. maybe you can get them to send some new perches also.
contact koni and they will ship you a couple of new rings...better material. maybe you can get them to send some new perches also.
10-08-2003
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Rep Power: 0 Well, I guess it was my fault. I Did some research and koni does not recommend using skunk2 coilover/sleeves with the shocks in the rear. I guess it adds too much pressure to the center, where as with springs, it puts the pressure in the outer part of the perch, so the medal piece can withstand it. I got a reply from one of the guys...I had to lie, I was afraid he wouldn't send me the replacement parts if I said skunk2 So he's going to send me the replacement parts soon. I feel bad, but damn, they should have a warning about this in their instructions. Glad I got the teins now
Here's his reply with quoting me
Mike,
>...such a small piece of medal to hold a perch,
When properly loaded, the circlip that is holding the spring seat can handle up to about 10 tons of force. If you notice, the bottom of the perch also has a relief cut into it to surround the cirlcip to allow it to handle more force as well.
>So my question is, what the heck do I do now?
I can get some replacement pieces out to you to replace the circlip and the spring perches that you have on the shocks. What kind of springs did you have on the shocks before? I'm just trying to get an idea of what may have caused the problem that you had. Thanks for writing.
Gordon
Here's his reply with quoting me
Mike,
>...such a small piece of medal to hold a perch,
When properly loaded, the circlip that is holding the spring seat can handle up to about 10 tons of force. If you notice, the bottom of the perch also has a relief cut into it to surround the cirlcip to allow it to handle more force as well.
>So my question is, what the heck do I do now?
I can get some replacement pieces out to you to replace the circlip and the spring perches that you have on the shocks. What kind of springs did you have on the shocks before? I'm just trying to get an idea of what may have caused the problem that you had. Thanks for writing.
Gordon
10-08-2003
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Rep Power: 0 ah ****, I can't lie, I told the guy the truth, went ahead and replied back saying I used skunk2, I had no idea, nothing warning me about it. I guess I might have to pay for the pieces then.
10-08-2003
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you shouldn't have to. My friend has his break too. They are supposed to be lifetime warrenty. The problem with konis is they take too much effort to get the to work right. They make a great product but you have to weld the perch, cut the strut, etc....
10-08-2003
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Rep Power: 392 well its still better than tokico taking 3 years to develop a strut...
eh, thought so(that you were using coilovers) they make special adapters for sleeved coilovers that solve the issue of the perch's breaking
eh, thought so(that you were using coilovers) they make special adapters for sleeved coilovers that solve the issue of the perch's breaking
10-09-2003
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Rep Power: 0 Well koni is going to send me the parts I need for free 
Koni is a good company, they are taking care of the customer.
Here's his reply:
Mike,
>...I had skunk2 coilovers/sleeves with them.
I thought that might be the case. That would explain the tape wrapped on the body of the shock and the tell-tale paint scrap marks towards the top of the shock where the insert would slide and hit the body.
>...that koni does not recommend using coilovers/sleeves with the shocks in
>the rear.
Not exactly. It's not that we don't recommend using coilovers but you have to make sure that you mount everything correctly. The problem that you had was that the spring perch that we include was not designed to support a coilover sleeve like that. What ends up happening is that the circlip on the body of the shock gets loaded unevenly and then can fail as the sleeve won't sit centered on the spring seat.
It is completely possible to use a coilover sleeve but you must make sure that you have an adapter ring made for the coilover sleeves and the Konis. Skunk2 is a little hi-and-miss with adapter rings as I have seen them on the internet and I've heard otherwise from other people. At the moment, the only sleeves that I know of that are made for the Konis are Ground Control (which uses an adapter ring) and our own sleeve (but doesn't come with a spring or upper spring seat). These are designed to properly go over the circlip of the shock and center the sleeve correctly so that there are no problems.
>So I guess I have to pay for the pieces?
No, don't worry about it. The order is in today and should ship out today as well. Since you have a set of factory shocks on the car already, I'm just sending it UPS Ground since this isn't keeping the car from driving or anything. I would also recommend that you use the other of the two ring grooves on the shock as when that circlip fails, it will sometimes round off the bottom edge of the groove in the shock. It's just a little extra insurance.
As for welding the perch on (I saw the thread on 7thgencivic), PLEASE don't do that. Welding on a shock, any shock, is not a good thing. At the very least, the heat needed to weld on the body will not do the seals or the oil of the shock any good. That's not to mention that the shock, at least with the 8041 series, is gas charged and is under pressure. We never weld on a shock body unless the shock has been taken completely apart. If you have any other questions, please let me know. Thanks.
Gordon
Koni is a good company, they are taking care of the customer.Here's his reply:
Mike,
>...I had skunk2 coilovers/sleeves with them.
I thought that might be the case. That would explain the tape wrapped on the body of the shock and the tell-tale paint scrap marks towards the top of the shock where the insert would slide and hit the body.
>...that koni does not recommend using coilovers/sleeves with the shocks in
>the rear.
Not exactly. It's not that we don't recommend using coilovers but you have to make sure that you mount everything correctly. The problem that you had was that the spring perch that we include was not designed to support a coilover sleeve like that. What ends up happening is that the circlip on the body of the shock gets loaded unevenly and then can fail as the sleeve won't sit centered on the spring seat.
It is completely possible to use a coilover sleeve but you must make sure that you have an adapter ring made for the coilover sleeves and the Konis. Skunk2 is a little hi-and-miss with adapter rings as I have seen them on the internet and I've heard otherwise from other people. At the moment, the only sleeves that I know of that are made for the Konis are Ground Control (which uses an adapter ring) and our own sleeve (but doesn't come with a spring or upper spring seat). These are designed to properly go over the circlip of the shock and center the sleeve correctly so that there are no problems.
>So I guess I have to pay for the pieces?
No, don't worry about it. The order is in today and should ship out today as well. Since you have a set of factory shocks on the car already, I'm just sending it UPS Ground since this isn't keeping the car from driving or anything. I would also recommend that you use the other of the two ring grooves on the shock as when that circlip fails, it will sometimes round off the bottom edge of the groove in the shock. It's just a little extra insurance.
As for welding the perch on (I saw the thread on 7thgencivic), PLEASE don't do that. Welding on a shock, any shock, is not a good thing. At the very least, the heat needed to weld on the body will not do the seals or the oil of the shock any good. That's not to mention that the shock, at least with the 8041 series, is gas charged and is under pressure. We never weld on a shock body unless the shock has been taken completely apart. If you have any other questions, please let me know. Thanks.
Gordon
10-09-2003
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Rep Power: 392 ya there were questions as to if it was ok to weld cause of the heat. i guess they have answered it... it would have been nice if they came and posted here but i guess that will do. thanks alot for relaying the messages back to us.
ya i knew it was better to use adapters, i guess thats why alot of the koni perches have failed. most instances people were using sleeved coilovers. i only know of maybe one or two that used lowering springs...
ya i knew it was better to use adapters, i guess thats why alot of the koni perches have failed. most instances people were using sleeved coilovers. i only know of maybe one or two that used lowering springs...
10-09-2003
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Rep Power: 299 werd...thanks for posting thier replies. lotsa good info straight from the horses mouth. Kinda cool that they read a few threads from here 
10-10-2003
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Rep Power: 0 hey.... they make these things... rings.... ionno what they are called but they protect those perch rings..... and it make it virtually impossible for those perch rings to fail.
10-10-2003
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Rep Power: 0 hey GC has some mod so the perch doesn't fall when you use the coilovers/sleeves. I'm using regular springs now (Tein) so it doesn't matter to me anymore.
10-11-2003
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Rep Power: 0 i welded my c-ring on because my car's *** dropped to the floor when i went over a small bump... (gc/koni)
well actually, what my uncle did was"spot weld" the ring on... he knew that the heat from the welding could damage the seal inside, or the pressurized gas whatever kind of shock it is....just like that gordon guy said...
so what he did was, he welded a little spot, dipped it in a bucket nearby of cold water right away (being careful not to electricute himself) then did another spot, dip... etc... this kept the shock cool the whole time...
no problems here..... so far...
well actually, what my uncle did was"spot weld" the ring on... he knew that the heat from the welding could damage the seal inside, or the pressurized gas whatever kind of shock it is....just like that gordon guy said...
so what he did was, he welded a little spot, dipped it in a bucket nearby of cold water right away (being careful not to electricute himself) then did another spot, dip... etc... this kept the shock cool the whole time...
no problems here..... so far...
Last edited by CivicHX01; 10-11-2003 at 12:36 AM.
10-13-2003
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Rep Power: 0 I have had this problem twice now, the perch has not broken yet, but continues to physically deform around the clip. This will eventually lead to failure. The first time koni sent out new perches, the second time I removed the rears, put my stocks back on, and will now wait for kyb agx's to come out in february....
I love the koni's but I bought a Honda for reliability, I am not willing to ride around worrying about my rear shocks failing
lease:
I love the koni's but I bought a Honda for reliability, I am not willing to ride around worrying about my rear shocks failing
lease:
10-14-2003
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Rep Power: 292 I'm surprised mex doesn't bring this up a lot. Mex helped me get my C ring to stay in place. We tried 3 times to put it in place and it would always fall when on the car. So Mex got a dremel and sanded down the paint that the C-ring sits in, so there was more space for it to sit in. Then we put the new C-ring in that we got from Koni and it's been fine for the last 6 months. Thanks again mex!
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