RSKtakR

I have a 01 Civic EX couple with the 1.7L and a manual trans. Car has 261k miles. Long block, catalytic converter, clutch, alternator and water pump all have right at 5k miles on them. Was driving the car the other day on the hwy and it seems like the car falls on its face/dies for a split second and then instantly comes back on. No CE light and no Maintenance required light. I replaced the spark plugs and coil packs and the car still has the issue, then I replace the fuel pump relay and it still does this. Last night it did this on the hwy in 5th gear just cruising from 65-70mph, but when I would drive around at a lower speed on side streets it wouldn't do it and ran just fine. I have been told this could be the fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump and maybe even the ECU. I am leaning towards the fuel pump because it has probably never been changed and could have 261k miles on it. My question is, is there anything on the spark side that I am missing that could be causing this to keep me from having to spend $200+ for a fuel pump assembly? Also, does this car only have one fuel pressure regulator (in the fuel pump assembly) or is there another up on the fuel rail?


Does anyone work at a dealer that could sell me a complete fuel pump assembly for cost possibly?


Any help would be great.

RSKtakR

Could the crank trigger be causing this problem as well? I have no clue if it has ever been replaced either so it might have 261k miles on it too.

ezone

There's an awful lot of stuff that COULD cause it....and it's gonna be expensive to just throw expensive parts at the problem hoping it will go away.


Got any very detailed observations?
At the moment it acts up: What do you see in the gauges? Needles? Warning lights?
Were the gauges already acting funky?

Any relays clicking?
ANY handy clues at all?




You had the engine out or apart....how about checking the two sets of ground wires bolted on top of the upper radiator hose fitting? (clean, fresh metal contact, tight)

Alternator mounting bolts are tight? Brackets tight?

Wiggle wiring in/on/around the engine while it's running, see if any movements make some change in the way it runs

You say the CEL isn't on, but have you checked for fault codes anyway?

Got access to a really good scanner that can act as a flight recorder, take a snapshot at the moment the car hiccups?



If you really want to go through a process, you could monitor the basics (compression, fuel, spark) and see which one goes haywire at the moment it hiccups

RSKtakR

Update: I bought a new fuel pump assembly (EVERYTHING so its a direct replacement and drop in.. including the fuel pressure regulator) and installed it last night. I took the car out and drove it for 30 min and no problems. I took it out on the hwy and went 70-80mph as well as some side street driving. The car drives better and feels better now and no issues, no falling on its face, no CE lights or anything. I am going to go drive it around some more tonight and see if it still has no issues. I haven't pulled the old pump apart yet to see the filter/screen but the gas that is coming out of the basin the pump is in was awfully dirty. The gas that was in the tank was nice and clean, the bottom of the tank was clean and looked almost new.. NO dirt or anything and I could see right through the half tank of gasoline to the bottom of it. I'm hoping this problem is solved.

NDNV

In hindsight, I wonder if you could have only replaced the fuel filter to solve the hesitation?

RSKtakR

there is no filter, just the screen. I suppose I could've just tried replacing the screen, the pressure regulator and the pump itself, but since the car has 261k miles on it and its just easier to replace the entire assembly I just went ahead and did that. Not to mention it seems like the price for JUST the regulator was $60+everywhere so paying $150 for the entire assembly with an unlimited no hassle warranty that is local.. I couldn't beat that deal.

GusBuz

The filter is built into the pump assembly its the top part of the assembly. You can find this part online by itself and swap it out.
Fuel pumps are not common to go out on these cars hence why people opt to just change the filter and keep the oem pump in the car.

RSKtakR

That's kind of what I thought to but I didn't feel like swapping parts around and taking the chance of it being something else. Needless to say I have an extra fuel pump assembly laying around if I ever need it and I will just swap out the filter/screen lol

RSKtakR

Well I Drove it on side streets and hwy tonight and on the way home I'd cuts out once on the hwy. Was going 70 in 5th, no CE light, no maintenance required light, the tach didn't drop from the 3200rpms or so that was at, and no lights dimmed or anything. Came right back on and acted as if nothing happened, it cuts off for like half a second with a total loss of power then comes right back on. Lol I think I'm officially stumped. 😫

RSKtakR

If it makes any difference, the car didn't start doing this until a couple weeks after putting a new battery in. Wonder if the ground straps would cause this and if I should replace them? They aren't split or anything but the connection points probably aren't the cleanest. Is there a "main relay" that might cause this?

ezone

Sudden, zero warning ?
Not like a single cylinder miss, but a total and complete loss of all engine power.....?


Would you describe it like someone clicked the key off, or is it more like you backed off the gas pedal briefly?

Not ringing a bell here so far either, but I'm kinda trying to gauge what the event might feel like in my mind.

Gauges didn't change or drop, gauges illumination stayed bright the whole time?

Tried gently wiggling the key, maybe the ignition switch might briefly drop just one of several circuits?


You said you checked the braided ground strap at the top water neck, but did you check the ground wires on a bolt right next to that strap?

Did you notice any relays clicking this time?



Could the problem be recreated just by holding the engine RPM up at (a 70 mph equivalent rpm) in neutral....for a while?
If you can duplicate it sitting still that would be handy



Might try to create a way to monitor some things while driving and see what drops out when the hiccup occurs?

RSKtakR

I will try to.

Thanks for your help!!

RSKtakR

Ok now as I'm standing in front of the car with the hood open and its idling, I heard it miss one time then go right back to normal. No one inside and the car is sitting still. No strange noises and the headlights didn't dim or anything.

ezone

The two wires on the eyelet might be the most important grounds in the car, #G101 is grounds for the PCM and most of the sensors in the engine bay.

RSKtakR

Yes both of those are mounted there.

ezone

Brass terminal and aluminum mounting point all cleaned to shiny bare metal, and wire brushed the bolt, for perfect electrical contact?

RSKtakR

Yes they were both a little dirty, I cleaned them both and made sure there is bare metal to bare metal contact. I haven't run the car yet since cleaning them up. I was thinking of replacing both ground straps and the negative terminal. Seems like parts stores don't have anything like what is on there (factory). I should be able to buy those from Honda I would think?

ezone

I'd think they could be special ordered at the dealership if you really wanted them. Might not be cheap though.. Check some of the online Honda dealers with parts catalogs you can browse for an idea of price?

hondapartsnow
hondapartscheap
bkhondaparts
hondaautomotiveparts.com/

RSKtakR

I will be getting both grounds (entire - terminal and the strap from the core support to the motor/thermostat housing) replaced over the weekend.

RSKtakR

Update:


I replaced the entire negative battery terminal and cable all the way down to where it mounts on to the transmission, and I also replaced the ground strap that mounts on the core support and by the thermostat. The car still has the same issue and no CE or maintenance required lights. I still cant get the car to have the issue when I move the key around while its running/driving it. That being said, it feels like I am driving 70mph, turning the key off for a split second and then turning it right back on.. .a total loss of power with no signs before or after of anything happening at all. I have read about the ignition lock cylinder recall on older civic's, accords and crv's.. I think I read about a type of problem like this on the 01+ civics too. Any truth to this and would I replace the entire lock cylinder with harness or just the wiring harness/electrical part of it? I cant seem to find just the harness/electrical part of it anywhere, and I cant seem to replicate this problem so I don't know if that is the correct part to replace at this point or not. I'm seriously about to just sell this car but I hate to because so many parts have been replaced and other than this stupid problem we have zero complaints of the car. Any opinions, recommendations, anything it could be??

ezone

The electrical switch can be purchased separately from the column lock assembly if you really want it, but I don't think your description matches a typical ignition switch failure.

There are ways to test just about anything on the car BEFORE you spend a lot of money replacing it, but it takes a lot of time and patience to do that.

First thing I'd want to do is figure out which system hiccupped when it acts up---fuel or spark?

RSKtakR

I would think its spark related and after looking around at the crank position sensor and cam position sensor I found that the bolt holding in the cam position sensor had backed out and been thrown through the upper timing belt cover, I slightly tugged the wires/connector that go to it and the entire sensor came out of the little hole that the dowl is in. Apparently there is just enough movement I would think to cause the no power feeling until the sensor sees the signal again. Lucky that the bolt didn't get caught up in the timing belt. Tore everything apart to remount it and get it all connected. Car runs fine and hopefully that solves my problem. Thanks for all your suggestions/help!

ezone

Well hell, I'm gonna cross my fingers that fixes the problems...


How did you figure this out?
Obvious hole punched through the timing cover or something?

Who would have left that little bolt loose?

RSKtakR

Yes the thread of the bolt was portruding out the top of the top belt cover, the head was still on the inside. Either the guy that put the motor in for me or I didn't tighten it when I I had to pull the head off to get valves repaired from the person that assembled the longblock and didn't use a Honda belt tensioner so it failed and te spring pulled through the cheap metal if the tensioner... With 3600 miles on a new motor. Regardless I'm glad I found it and no damage was done.

ezone

Someone else here bent a pile of valves after that little bolt fell out.

You should pick up some lottery tickets.

RSKtakR

Well the problem still exists.. I had called Honda and talked to a service advisor, he said it doesn't sound like the ignition lock cylinder electronics problem, he seemed to think it was the crank sensor or cam position sensor might be acting up so I bought a new crank sensor before stumbling across the loose cam position sensor and I will be installing that soon I guess. That being said, I haven't heard of crank sensors having problems. This problem sure feels like a spark issue and not a fuel problem as is it abrupt, there is no "shudder" and its a total loss of power then all the power comes right back. when I say total loss of power, I'm not talking about electrical either. .I mean power as in forward momentum. Nothing on the dash is affected. The tach doesn't change, the mph doesn't change, the lights on the gauges don't dim or change. The only other thing left is fuel injectors and PCM?? It literally feels like while I'm driving it, the key is turned off and then right back on. Still no check engine lights. If I didn't shave my head every couple days, I would definitely be pulling my hair out right now.


So far new/replaced parts are:


-Alternator (was replaced when new motor was installed about 5k miles ago).
-02 Sensors were both replaced along with the catalytic converter (all replaced when new motor was installed about 5k miles ago).
-Battery (was replaced when it was bitter cold here a month or so ago) This problem started shortly after new battery was installed.
-New fuel pump assembly.
-Cam angle sensor was loose two days ago, so I tightened it up.
-New spark plugs.
-New coil packs.
-Fuel pump relay
-New core support to head ground strap with good clean contact.
-New negative battery terminal with ground strap attached to body and to the transmission with good clean contact.


I was looking around online some more this morning and stumbled across this thread: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...oss-power.html


which says "found P1298 stored in the PCM and noted ELD rec" any idea if this might be a possible problem? The alternator has around 5k miles on it (I bought it new from Oriellys I think) and I just bought and installed a new battery because the old battery shot craps. I didn't have this problem until shortly after I installed the new battery.. .hmmmmmm


There is no stereo system or anything in the car though.. all factory.

ezone

You said you have no fault codes. Not your problem.
ELD issues don't cause your complaint anyway.

Plus miles of wiring and thousands of terminals.

The janitor here knows more about cars than our advisors. LOL

RSKtakR

I'm thinking I might be selling a Civic EX coupe soon lol