mycarsucks1234

Needed to change cam and crank oil seals.
Ended up letting the car sit for a month.
Swapped the seals out, replaced timing belt, changed oil and filter.

First try at starting it, the starter didnt even go, just a click and battery cut off for a few minutes (unsure why this happened?)
Hit the starter a few times and then the engine started for 1-2 seconds tops, then died.
After that it wouldnt start, just crank.

- No engine codes.
- Battery is good.
- Checked all plugs / sensors / grounds.
- Took plugs out, they all smelled like fuel, so I take that as fuel is at least making it into the combustion chamber.
- Grounded the plugs and they all had spark (blue / orange middle)
- Sprayed starter fluid into the intake, it seemed to want to start, very very rough, but died. 2nd and 3rd try didnt show any signs of wanting to start.
- Ran a compression test, Cylinder 2 and 4 are very low.
In a few hours I'll be checking the timing and will also check the cam and crank sensors, maybe I'll notice I messed up something, and if I have time I'm going to do a leak down test on cylinder 2 and 4.


If anyone has answers, my questions are...
- Would low compression in those two cylinders prevent it from starting? If so, I would wonder why it started up fine before working on it.

- Does anyone have info on troubleshooting the Cam Position Sensor? If it works the same as the Crank Position Sensor, I found a good article on that.

- Would it be possible for either sensor to be faulty, but not throw an engine code?

- Does the very rough "almost" start after spraying starter solution signal anything about fuel? Since it was technically an improvement, and the car has been sitting for a month, but with 3/4 tank.

-Oh and Most important... Am I missing something that I should check?

Any response or feedback is appreciated.
Thanks

GusBuz

Check timing, then go from there. Since you did mess with the belt it could very well be off timing and not start.

ezone

Flooded it?

mycarsucks1234

Will post back shortly about that.


I tried with open throttle after it wouldnt start initially.
Then I did some of the troubleshooting and then the next morning I tried again and it didnt go. I only assume it would be good to go pretty soon after, especially a full day after.

Is there something I should do it ensure it is dry before trying next time?

ezone

Did you run a cold engine only briefly, now it won't run at all? This happens a lot, sometimes even in the best situations, when someone moves the car around in the driveway and shuts it off.....cold weather makes it that much easier to flood it out.

Once the plugs are wet enough to not fire, it can be hard as hell to get it to run on its own again without help.

Ether can't help after the engine is flooded, that's more fuel and it's already got way too much fuel it can't burn and can't get rid of.


IF the cam-crank relationship (timing belt) is more than about 2 teeth out of time, the computer can shut down the engine at 2 seconds in an attempt to avoid further damage. Recheck and make sure alignment is absolutely perfect. (Right now I can only assume you did the timing belt work correctly...If it is not, it needs corrected first.)




Here's a pile of ideas, maybe not in any certain order:



Raw gas can't evaporate from the cylinders without help:
disable the pump or injectors so they can't squirt even more gas into the engine while you are trying to get it running..... You could try disabling fuel and cranking it before pulling the plugs again...(if it does fire on more than 2 cylinders at a time then you can enable fuel again)

plugs need to be removed, dried out and cleaned off. Might need to happen more than once. I've even used a propane torch to preheat plugs in sub-frigid temps LOL


maybe airing the cylinders out with a blowgun, maybe cranking a lot with plugs out and fuel disabled,


Raw gas washes down the cylinder walls of the oil film so the rings can't seal well, and compression drops. A bunch.
You might need to dump a tablespoonful of engine oil down each of the sparkplug holes and crank the engine over to distribute some oil film to the rings, and regain some of the lost compression.
WARNING you can ruin stuff this way if you aren't careful. Crank it without any plugs installed, that way you can't hydrolock it if you got too much oil in the cylinders.

The oil you just dumped in can still get the plugs wet and they won't fire. All over again. But the cranking sound will become more normal again....unless or until you flood it again.

mycarsucks1234

@ezone
I think, initially it was parked then I pulled it into my garage. This was early December so Im fuzzy on the details, but it is cold now 20s - low 30s degree fahrenheit.

I haven't done much, it's cold and I'm tired from work, but the timing checked out fine, right on the mark where I left it.
Both Cam and Crank Position Sensors read 12.4 V on power and ground and 5V through the signal wire.

However, when I turned the engine by hand, about 3 points it would drop to .2V then shoot back up to 5V as soon as I would move one. I can't find out if thats normal, but my assumption is that it is fine.

Tomorrow is my day off so I'll be putting it back together and doing what you suggested, we will see how that goes.

Thanks.

ezone

You confirmed spark so the crank sensor is ok....voltages sound expected as the trigger points (bumps) on the cam gear pass by the sensor and cause it to change states.

mycarsucks1234

@ezone
Your suggestions seemed to have worked, so I must have flooded it upon first trying to start it up.

So I got it running, but I shut it down fairly quickly because the exhaust was billowing white smoke with a strong burnt rubber smell. I don't know what that necessarily means, and searching online seems to bring up head gasket failures and I know thats not it, I'm continuing searching, but am also wondering if you have any ideas?

Thanks

ezone

Big mistake shutting it off before it got warmed up to operating temperature, it may end up flooded all over again...at least you got some technique to deal with it if that happens now.

It was flooded, the exhaust is full of gasoline. EDIT: and full of oil if you dumped oil into the spark plug holes to restore ring sealing abilily
IT WILL POUR OUT TONS OF SMOKE UNTIL IT HAS COOKED ALL OF THE OIL, FUEL AND CONDENSATION OUT OF THE EXHAUST. DRIVE IT!

Don't just let it sit and idle, it needs driven! Jump in, drive around to get it all warmed up then (run the snot out of it) drive it hard because that will help clean the carbon and soot off of the spark plugs.

ezone

Cold engine must to run very rich (additional fuel) by design. That's normal and proper.
Rich running leads to rapid carbon (soot) buildup on the spark plugs. Also normal.

If you drive it and get it heated up, that soot burns off as the plugs get hot. Everyone is happy.


BUT
If you shut it off too soon (engine is still cold), upon the next start attempt cold......that fresh soot that hadn't burned off of the plugs yet will try to soak up the fuel that's being squirted into the cylinders, and sparks cannot jump across the gap of a wet spark plug. Presto, plugs are soaking wet and the damn thing won't run.



This is a typical scenario that many people have happen when they start a car and move it in the driveway to let another car out, then shut it off. Next time they need it to move, it won't start.

mycarsucks1234

@ezone
Its a vicious cycle isn't it? I am going to double check the plugs again next time I start it up.
It is always something stupid, but I am glad its sorted out. Thanks for your help troubleshooting this.

ezone

I forgot to include, If you dumped oil in the plug holes to help restore compression, that will make a ton of smoke once it runs again too.