gts

Are you saying the Cat is now gone - thus the inability for the engine to run for any length of time much less it take any load?

Will do the compression check again as soon as I can but it sounds like the results will be the same if not worse.

Maybe getting ahead of things but if the Cat is clogged then a leak down test won't show/ allow anything come through the exhaust, right? (if that's the problem)

Would the pressure potentially cause damage elsewhere if the air has no where to go?

ezone

No, I'm saying it's a possibility......based on what you said about you running and driving it while it's running like poop, it's a real good possibility.

YOU have to do the legwork to see if that's what happened or not.


Maybe.

One of the symptoms of a restriction.

Stick a coffee stir-straw in your mouth, put your track shoes on and try to run around the block at top speed. How well will you breathe through that little stir-straw? How fast and how far do you think you can go?

Try it.
Yes it would because there is still some amount of flow possible, albeit rather small by now. Refer to the coffee straw above.

Depends.
If it can't run at all, what more damage can be done?
If it can still run, overheating is a possibility too.


Open up the exhaust, pull the front O2 sensor out...that opens up a 18mm hole. Look inside with a flashlight.
Start it up. If you can rev the engine a bit higher RPM than before, that's a good indication the exhaust is restricted.

guitarsnlikker

Dear Lord man, get some rest.

gts

All you wrote makes sense.

Fwiw during my attempts to get it to run the coolant temp rose to about 162 degrees (according to my code reader) even though the engine only ran for a couple of minutes (when it would run).

I suspect the CAT is gone.
I'm a bit baffled why there have been and still continue to be no codes for failed or failing O2 sensor(s) or codes related to the CAT having issues.
Then again I haven't yet confirmed the CAT is gone but your descriptions indicate the exhaust is restricted.
The straw analogy was very good.

Tomorrow should be warm enough outside to do some more work/ exploration.
I don't have any gear specifically made for a leak down test so that will likely have to wait.
But the 2nd compression test as well as pulling the front/ upstream O2 sensor to see if it has an affect on the engines ability to run can happen.

Wish I had a garage. I'd happily dig in and do whatever it takes.
Unfortunately having to work on it outside in the winter (never mind the poor condition of the driveway) makes it difficult.
Unfortunately as winter progresses here in northern New England it will become impossible (for me) to work on it.

ezone

You have to understand the driving conditions necessary to enable the computer to perform its self-tests on the cat, and have it fail the tests. Twice.

You also have to understand that the testing of one system can be halted if there are fault codes for something else that could affect the test results of the first. The cat testing is suspended if there are misfire codes present, O2 sensor codes, various other sensor codes, rich or lean codes, and more.

gts

Makes complete sense. I didn't realize the code detection system interacted but it makes sense why it would.

Ok on to the compression test.

Today cold engine:
Cyl 1 = 207
Cyl 2 = 45
Cyl 3 = 207
Cyl 4 = 37

Did a wet test - put about 1tbls of oil in Cyl 2 and 4.
Cyl 2 = 60
Cyl 4 = 37

After releasing the pressure on the gauge I ran it again on Cyl 2 and the pressure dropped to 45

As you can see there was no change on Cyl 4 doing the wet test.
Both are pretty bad though much like the first test showed.

I also took out the Upstream O2 Sensor per your suggestion and it ran much better. So no doubt the cat is clogged/ fried.
I kind of knew it was, but before taking out the O2 sensor, seeing the front rubber exhaust hanger showing signs of melting was foreboding.

As for the Leak Down Test can I run air from my compressor directly into each cylinder, look and listen etc
or should I get (or make) and use one with the two gauges etc?

ezone

No significant improvement in the wet test compression figures pretty much assures that you have valve problems (likely burned) causing low compression.
Head will come off, head will be sent to machine shop for valve job.

Would you like to commit to doing the set of piston rings while the head is off?
That's the time to do it if you're gonna do it.

Would you rather drop in a decent used engine (of unknown and dubious history)? Would you like to go through that engine before dropping it in?
(I would, but that's me. Did you see the pistons out of the broken Fit I bought cheap?)

Decisions, decisions. Do some heavy math before deciding.

==============================

Ran better after removing the sensor, proves exhaust restriction (the cat or exhaust is clogged). Probably gonna need a cat at minimum. What else?



Decisions, decisions. Do some heavy math before deciding.

gts

I greatly appreciate all your help and insights.

I'll still likely do the leak down when I get the chance.

Yes decisions, decisions....
As for taking the head off and bringing it to a machine shop for a valve job; I have no idea what a machine shop would charge.

Doing the pistons rings when the head is off, sure makes sense.
While I'm not exactly sure what's involved; while the the labor would be on me I don't have any idea of what other cost(s) there would be.

Dropping in a decent used engine and going through it before dropping it in?
I'd be game here as well. Wish I had a space (garage) to do all the work as it'd be easier to consider this option.

A space to work on it is as much of an issue as anything at this point.
I've learned a lot so far and would love to have a garage where I could work on it. If I did I'd dive in.
It'd be a "fun" project. Mostly because I'd learn so much
(not to mention saving a couple of bucks but the learning part would mean more to me).

Guess it's time to look around for a local machine shop and see how much it'd cost for a valve job done. A good place to start then proceed from there....

ezone

Rent a space in a local you-storage area, the size of a car?

gts

Looked around for one but all the storage places wont let you work on a car while it's in their facility.
Still looking and considering options.
Maybe buy a beater for the winter then work on the EX's engine after it warms up in the spring.

Still plan to do the Leak Down Test.
Also contacted a local machine shop and they priced the valve job at anywhere from 200-700.
They wont know till they see the head which is completely understandable.

What's involved in doing a set of piston rings once the head is off?

ezone

Get a dang shop manual first LOL

Pull oil pan, remove anything in the way of getting rod bolts out, paintmark or scratchmark the rods, caps, and pistons, remove rod bolts and caps, push pistons up and out. Don't damage the pistons, bearings, or block while doing so.

check block bores for scores scratches and damage

Clean pistons thoroughly, use a real ring groove cleaner or snap the rings in half and use them as scrapers to get all carbon out of the ring grooves (but don't remove any aluminum while cleaning!).... install new rings carefully observing orientation, end gap positions and directions....

will need a ring compressor to reinstall pistons in block....

pistons must go back into the same holes they came from and face the correct direction,

all rod caps must stay with the rods they came from, the caps cant swap to other rods and the caps cant go on backwards, (this is why they are to be marked before disassembly)


replace any bolts the book says to replace, if it says to replace any at all. Observe all torque specs, buy a GOOD torque wrench if you need to

=====================

You'll have a stripped block something like this, these pics are from the 07 Fit I bought cheap and did a head gasket job and put new rings in while the head was off of the engine (this engine is completely different from a Civic)

gts

Very Cool! Looks like a challenging but fun project.
For me it'd have to be done inside or in warmer weather.

Fwiw I do have a Shop Manual.
A downloaded pdf within a zip file titled "Em2_repair_manual_all_version.zip"
On the first page/ cover the actual Manual is titled:

SERVICE
MANUAL
CIVIC
CIVIC 4/5D
MAINTENANCE, REPAIR &
CONSTRUCTION 01

Not completely sure if it's the right one (what models/ what counties it was written for) but it seems to cover my 2003 EX.
I used it for reference (amongst other resources) when doing the valve adjustment as well as EGR passage cleaning

ezone

We did not get a 5 door Civic in the US.

The manuals you find online-- you have to be very careful that you pick the correct or compatible car/engine because most are not specifically for US market cars.