ezone

It would be a lot less clumsy if you pull the sensor out of the filter box.


Voltage drop testing can prove exactly where the poor connections are. Maybe whatever you are doing is disturbing the bad connection just enough to make it work again for a little while.

A typical bad spot is where the bare wires are squished into the new cable end. Are the wires clamped tight, or do they still wiggle?
Was all the red or black paint removed from that spot before assembly?
Is there corrosion in the copper wire there?
Let it run long enough to get it up to full operating temperature first (radiator fans cycle on and off) , then retry this same check.

What is idle RPM at full operating temperature?

I'm guessing the IAC valve is stuck wide open, but I don't have enough info from you yet.

Niaboc67

I bought a zinc terminal for the positive terminal which seemed to be clamped on quite sturdier than the negative terminal. The other is the cheapo ones with paint on it, although almost all the paint has been scraped off at this point. There is a little corrosion and slight wiggle on that terminal cable. I will buy another zinc terminal tomorrow and install.

Would full operating temperature be halfway on the temp gauge? When I let it run today it was about at a 1/3 of total temp gauge. When it was at a 1/3 the tachometer was at 2. Seems like the rpms sort of plateau and then kick in. Like it was first at 1.3 then I hear something sort of kick in like a gear change and then the rpms start increasing by itself hitting about 2, then it kicked again a raised a bit more at that point I felt I should turn it off again. Maybe I messed something up when cleaning the IAC valve, I removed the gasket first then sprayed all holes down with CRC throttle body cleaner then wiped everything up with swabs. Then waited an hour for things to dry and placed the gasket back on and re-attached it to the throttle body. It's certaintly possible I may have made a mistake, was my first time cleaning it.

ezone

*AHEM*

Keep the AC turned off when you do this.



There's a rotary valve inside the IAC, powered by a tiny electric winding, that opens and closes the air passage.
The rotary valve needs to be freed up so it can rock back and forth under the power of the tiny electric servomotor.

Niaboc67

I saw that in there tried to get as much gunk out of there as possible, but it was some tight squeezes. Is there a special procedure for cleaning that valve? or an alignment of that rotary valve. What causes the IAC valve to become stuck open?

Wth the cables having some slack, that IAC valve does seem like the most likely culprit here.
Also, I am making a trip tomorrow to the junk yard, already planning on grabbing an air filter box. Anything else I should pick from the lot?

ezone

Clean and shiny isn't always good enough.
Gotta push (rotate) the moving parts back and forth until it is completely freed up.

What makes it stick? The same black gooey buildup that occurs around the throttle blade and bore.
Maybe some corrosion if it's sat for a while.

Grab a throttle body, complete?

Niaboc67

Maybe I should just uninstall and reclean and really get into the bore and that rotary valve seems like that is the culprit.

Thank you for all your help, I feel like I am close to having a working car. Next all I have to do is a head gasket/timing belt/water pump/break job on this car.

ezone

I would do everything I can to make it operational again before spending money LOL

YW. Good luck

Niaboc67

Is there a way to clean those rotary valves out? I can't seem to spin them or anything, does that mean they are stuck? I sprayed them as much as I could last time, but still idling by itself. Is there any way it could be a result of a sensor?

Also, this junkyard I frequent is having a 50% sale and was wondering what you would suggest to get. From your experience with this car, what things often go wonky on this car that I could pick off another. There are two civic 7th gens pretty much un-picked. The place is a real steal, the air filter box (great condition) was only $15, but am waiting to get it for $7.50.

ezone

If you remove the electric portion from the IAC valve, there should be delicate a little shaft sticking out you can use to rotate the valve with your fingers.

Odyssey part, but yours should be similar:



The holes for the two bolts are probably slotted for adjustment of the electric portion, but there is no written procedure to adjust it.
Mark the exact position of the electric part so it can go back on in exactly the same place it began.

Niaboc67

Hey again.
So this keeps taking way longer than expected, mainly because of long working hours. But I took everything apart again and have the IACV in my hand and was confused by the bolt/screw type? the ones which hold down the electrical component. I looked online and thought they were the "star type" so I went to advanced auto parts and the guy gave me like a swiss army knife star tool set. Tried them all and they didn't work. I knew you'd know what I should get for this. When I returned it to advanced and showed them the IACV screw type, they all looked befuddled, said I should check out home depot.

ezone

Where's the picture of your bolts? Durrr.

TORX?
Basic Torx is 6 point star, tamper proof torx has a pin in the center, torx-plus has flattened tips of the points, and then there's 5 point versions of torx too.
Inverted torx is available too.

I swear, it's all a plot by tool companies and various manufacturers to keep people like me purchasing new tools.

Niaboc67

It turned out to be a 5 point star which all the local stores around here didn't carry. So I ended up taking a saw to it and working a flathead to it, broke it loose and the IACV was stuck, I soaked it overnight in throttle body spray. Then rubbed everything down with tissues and q-tips. Eventually, the IACV spinned freely. So I re-installed everything along with a new airbox.

I went to start it up and it shot up to 1100rpm, it sat there at 1100rpm for about 2 minutes then it began to climb again like before. I think the IACV is a lot better now because before it would climb right when it was started.
This time like I said was at 1100rpm, then after about 2 minutes it started to climb till it reached 2000rpm, then held there. I put my foot to the peddle to make it go to 3000rpm and then it was at about 2200rpm. This went on for about 7 or so minutes then the car started to overheat and I cut it off. Really surpised about the quick overheat because it has coolant in there. Lost on what else it could be. It has a blown head gasket but it never overheated this fastly.

ezone

Did you set the coil back on in the same spot it originally was? I think the screw holes were slotted for a little adjustment.

On a fully warmed up engine......If you use your fingers to block off the port inside the throttle body, does that bring the idle RPM down?


Got a check engine light/any fault codes?

Did you refill the radiator and burp the cooling system after reinstalling the IAC valve?


What did it do when you say it overheated? What did you see?
Spew antifreeze, smoke rolling out, temp gauge maxed at the H mark, or what? Were the radiator fans running when you say it overheated?

Niaboc67

I put a mark on the coil but it smeared off I put it where I seemed best at the time.

I restarted it an hour ago it seems to idle good at +-1000rpm. No surging. Idk why before it shot up and stayed at 2000rpm, all seems good now. It starts up well. Now my main concern is the quick overheat. The temp gauge at around the 5-6minute mark goes to about 3/4 the way of the gauge before I turn it off. Before I could drive this car about an hour on the highway then when I let it idle it would overheat and spew coolant out the reservoir. I recently installed a thermostat which I may have installed wrong. Or it may have been a bad thermostat. I remember reading that the nipple of the thermo gasket had to be aligned well. Could that cause it to overheat in 5 minutes?

Thank you

ezone

Welllllll, after you get this overheat issue resolved, you're probably going to need to let the computer do an idle relearn. It's gotta be able to run for at least 10 minutes after it gets to operating temperature to do that....so you aren't ready for that yet.

You know how it went in, not me. I can't see from here.
Is the radiator still completely full? Is the stat bad or stuck closed? (boiling water test)

The "jiggle pin" goes to the top, and the stat gasket has to be slipped around the stat the right direction, and with the cutout in the right spot around the jiggle pin, then the whole thing is installed as one piece.

Rubber gasket only. No sealers, no cardboard gasket.

The side that has the spring goes into the engine first. The pointy end points toward the hose. I don't think it's possible to get this installed backwards, but I've seen that some people can accomplish 'amazing things' when they really try.






Similar:




And if the head gasket is a problem, just fix it!

Niaboc67

Thanks so much.

I rechecked the stat, it's in there correctly with the cylinder part facing inside the housing. The jiggle pin is at 12 o'clock w/rubber gasket around the stat but not over the jiggle pin, like in the image. Some of the rubber is partially sticking out the side of the housing, not a ton but enough where I can feel the rubber on the right side of the housing. I aligned the jiggle pin with the upside down U indentation in the housing, guessing that's where it had to be lined up. When I started it the first time it did this weird idle thing then the check engine light came on.

I restarted it again and took a video. It's long and not much happens until the car gets warmed up then it starts idling high and doing this weird thing (at around the 5:40 mark) which I really hope you can hear in the video. It begins idling high, overheating and the tachometer needle wiggles around seemingly all at the same time. It's like once the car gets the either a certain rpm or temperature it starts this weird quick idle. Like it's revving ever so slightly up and down but not long idles just little quick ones. Seems to happen only when the car warms up/overheats.


Here is the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li-D...ature=youtu.be

ezone

What's the code?

Idle RPM isn't right, I can see that. See what the code is.

A scanner that can display live engine data may be helpful.

When the temp gauge starts going above its normal spot, feel the radiator hoses and radiator, if the stat opened and let coolant flow out of the engine then the top tank of the radiator should be hot probably all the way across it. (NOTE: the top hose will almost always feel quite warm long before the stat actually opens)

Did you plug in the radiator fan temp switch?

.
It can't heal itself.
How rapidly is the head gasket displacing liquid out of the radiator now?

Niaboc67

Is the RPM ok in the beginning? I think I read +/-1000 is good, but 2000 is not for idling.
I think I'll have to borrow one of those scanner tools from someone as soon as I can, "live" if possible!

When you say the TOP TANK this confuses me, what is the top tank? It should be warm because the coolant goes from the lower hose into the engine then out of the upper hose back to the top of the radiator, right?

Will feel the hoses too, shouldn't they be quite firm and hot too, when the engine starts cooking?

When I replaced the stat I never took the fan switch out. That's the golden piece connected to the stat housing right? I took the housing itself stuck the stat in and screwed the two screws in.
I doesn't look like it's spraying out coolant from the reservoir, not sure if that's what you were asking about. The initial coolant I put in after I changed the stat seems to be in there, from when I start and turn off, same levels.

ezone

Maybe for a cold engine, but the RPM should drop to under 1000 fairly quick and eventually drop to around 750ish.
It's handy to be able to read what the computer is seeing.
The top black plastic of the radiator, goes all the way across the top of the radiator.




The engine heats up the liquid, hot liquid flows from engine to radiator through the top hose.

The bottom hose won't get warm right away. They only get firmer when the system has pressure on it, that doesn't necessarily have to mean hot.
I didn't mean taking it out, I meant connecting the wires for it.

Did you verify the radiator fans do run when the engine is hot? (bottom radiator hose would have to get HOT before the fans run)
Do the radiator fans run if you jumper the 2 wires in that connector?

Are all/most/any of your current issues happening because of a blown head gasket?


The radiator has to be kept completely full under all conditions. Is it?
That's more critical than the reservoir.



Was your new thermostat from Honda?
Did it match the original design?

Niaboc67

Thank you.
The thermostat looks to be OEM, looks exactly like the one pictured in the posts before.

First I checked the coolant, it's almost to the brim.

I did the "paperclip method", then turned the key to the START position and both fans came right on. Then took out the paperclip and re-installed.
Then started the car fully, and it again did the "steady rising rpm" thing, began at 1 and steadily worked it's way to 2 under a few minutes. When I saw the gauge go above 60%, I went under the hood and felt the black plastic bar on top of the radiation, it was very hot. Then I felt the upper hose and it was also very hot, felt like mice were doing a triathlon in there too. And as well, the lower hose wasn't hot at all.

ezone

So the fans are able to run IF the thermoswitch is good.
The top hose better be hot, that's how hot liquid got into the radiator.
Next question would be, exactly how hot is it?
The ECT sensor reading obtained from the PCM data should tell you what the computer thinks the coolant temp is (temp sensor sits in the water fill neck for the upper rad hose), and if you have a decent thermometer you can then compare actual water temp in the radiator fill neck and verify if sensor reading is reasonably accurate or not. (temp in the neck will take longer to come up due to mixing hot with cool liquid before reaching the neck area)

Tells me the system hasn't circulated coolant throughout yet.


Does the radiator have good flow-ability, not have any restrictions or clogs that would block water flow?
Are the radiator core tubes clogged with lime and calcium deposits? Stop leak?

Niaboc67

How can I test the thermoswitch, sounds like it may be bad.
The top hose, the one connected from the top of the radiator to the top the engine, I thought that was suppose to be hot because it takes the hot coolant from the engine and shoots it to the radiator to be cooled down. The hose is above the thermostat hose and they are the same size hoses. That one?

The PCM, I looked that up that's the "powertrain control module", so that's like the brains/computer of the car. So when a code reader is hooked up it retrieves its data from that module. How do I get something like that to retrieve temp data?

Also, The ECT sensor, I read that's the "engine coolant temperature", so that's just like the thermometer for the car. So that could potentially have gone bad, maybe? Would that tell the fans to kick on? This car has overheated before after long drives and I've gone out to check the fans and they are not on. Would that be an indication of a bad ECT sensor, because the "paperclip method" passed, so fans are definately operationa.

Also, before there was some "blue devil" (I know....) poured into the radiator. The engine was luke warm, which I heard was a bad idea and the stat was still in there when this was done. About an hour later the car was at max overheating and after it was turned off, opening the radiator there was all these rock salt like deposits in there. I did a radiator flush but I don't know if it got all that rock salt stuff out. The stuff white stuff would come apart just by grinding it with your fingers. Afterwards I took the thermostat out and it was caked in that rock salt. I think I heard you can spray a radiator down with a garden house to clean them out but not 100%.

Thank you

ezone

Bottom hose was cold. The fan switch should not turn on. Not a concern yet.

You would need something that can do more than just read codes. Live data display, freeze frame data, and more can be had on better units if you spend more loot.
Scangauge, Ultragauge, Torque or torque pro phone app with bluetooth dongle, all plug in to the OBD2 port and display data from the PCM.
Must verify accuracy, see last post.
NO.

Not if the sensor is accurate.

Niaboc67

I know, so like that stuff could have clogged all sorts of ports up. That's my biggest worry of the cars health right now. That was months ago. And I was able to drive the car 20 something miles w/o a stat in it after that whole fiasco and no overheating at all. Should I be looking to buy a new car after all that gunk is probably everywhere? Some hillbilly said it would work, I was desperate.

ezone

You tell us.


IMO Liquid Glass should only be a temporary, emergency solution....and I'd consider it a "last ditch effort" before absolute death.

I wouldn't touch a head gasket job (or much of anything internal or cooling related) on an engine if I know it has had this done to it.
I wouldn't use it on anything that has hope of ever being long-term road worthy.

I'd only use it on some half-dead car that already has one tire in the junkyard.....In fact, during Cash For Clunkers not very long ago, we poured the same stuff into their engines to make them lock up so they were just garbage and couldn't ever be run again.

Are we to understand this car has only traveled 20 miles in the time since you dumped Blue Devil in the radiator?

Remove radiator cap. Remove some of the liquid if you have to in order to see. Look down inside at the core, and see if you can see crap that would be clogging the skinny aluminum tubes that make up the core of the heat exchanger.

Niaboc67

It really sounds like the radiator is clogged up with this stuff. It's night time here now, I'll look over the radiator tomorrow morning. Thinking I will take the entire radiator out and cleaning each vane by sticking a slim piece of metal down there and shimming all the gunk out. Then spraying inside each vane with water and repeating the process till it's all out. Read vinegar helps.

ezone

Look inside and see. You won't be able to see any place other than in the hole under the radiator cap, if you can see any at all in that spot.

Howzat? You aren't going to pry the plastic tanks off of the aluminum core. About all you can do is try to use a garden hose to see if it can flow well and rinse it out.

Normal flow is top to bottom. Flow check, stick garden hose in upper radiator hose connection (I wrap a shop towel around the hose to sorta fill up the gaps) turn on full blast and it should be able to flow every bit of water out the bottom hose neck without backing up (be careful house water pressure is much higher than a car cooling system can handle)
Flow from bottom to top to try to rinse clogs out the top.

White. Maybe CLR, if it's clogged with hard water deposits.

Google Sodium Silicate and try to figure out if there is any reasonable way to dissolve it.

Here's the problem though:
Sodium silicate is suspended in the coolant until it reaches the cylinder head. At 100–105°C, sodium silicate loses water molecules to form a glass seal with a remelt temperature above 810°C.

Your first overheat after pouring it in probably caused a good portion of that stuff to convert, and I'm guessing the instructions weren't followed so it may not have really stuck to anything it was intended to fix, but instead it created the floaties that clog up everything....(including the heater core) LOL


Another thought, if it ran super hot during the process did the plastic under the radiator cap get damaged? If the bottom ring of the radiator cap can't seal and hold pressure it will just push liquid into the overflow bottle.

Niaboc67

Would opening the radiator cap and sticking a garden hose on full blast be enough to get all the white rock salt deposits out? Should I take the entire rad out and spray all over it, side to side and all around too?

I read about this stuff called Thoro-flush which I've read was successful with getting out bars sealant, wondering if I would have similar success.

https://www.amazon.com/Irontite-Thor.../dp/B00JJ1FB28

I guess I could try white vinegar and CLR together and pour it in and see if that helps at all. Of course with the upper and lower hoses detached.

Also, how do I test the rad cap? not sure if it's good or not. Everything just keeps getting hot and pressurized then sent to the overflow tank.

Also, I am thinking the stat I have in my car now must be bad because before I poured the blue devil the car could run an hour and not overheat, then afterwards it overheated in under 10 minutes, then I took the stat out and it went more than 20 miles without overheating. I re-installed that same stat in the car now, maybe the stat got messed up during the blue devil blue causing it to not behave right.

I took the airbox off and did the finger trick over the throttle body, it decreased the rpms again.

Thank you!

ezone

No. If there is trash sitting on top of the core, that would only push it deeper.
IMO reverse flow is needed for flushing. Bottom to top.

Rinsing the outside may be good, but will do nothing to alleviate internal clogging.

IDK.
Um, didn't anyone ever tell you to not mix chemicals if you don't know anything about them?

Ever mix Drano, ammonia, and bleach? What happens?

Cap tester, or just replace it.
....But, a burned radiator neck may not allow a cap to seal correctly, that's why I mentioned it in another post.

The new radiator may come with a new cap.

Now WHY did I believe you had installed a NEW THERMOSTAT? Oh yeah, I didn't read where you said otherwise.

That would have been handy information.

SMDH. Take it out or replace it and see if that stops the overheat in 6 minutes.