Niaboc67

I think I can with the IAC but the throttle body won't open because the throttle body harness is stuck. When I go to move back that black harness thing hooks in with the throttle cords that's used for accerating it just moves like 1 inch but the throttle body won't open. I know I've been able to pull that harness thing all the way back to hear the car rev. What could be causing that to only move a little?

ezone

Reassemble everything (cable and bracket, whatever).
Jam a stick between the seat and the gas pedal.

NDNV

Could you have a poor ground via the alternator bracket (stripped bolt) for the no start and a leaking head gasket for the white smoke in the exhaust?

ezone

Check the video he posted earlier where he shows it running with the heat shield pulled back, I think the smoke started in the middle of the header collector area. See what you think.

NDNV

To be honest I didn't see the smoke he is referring to in the video. Perhaps a leak in the gasket or manifold. Agreed that the OP should concentrate on the no start issue first.


Check that grounding bolt on the alternator bracket - this issue personally was a PITA with my 03 EL - major electrical gremlins.

Niaboc67

Pretty sure but not positive that the reason for the battery problems were a result of starting the Car for 30 second intervals and not letting the Alternator charge the battery. But maybe there is something more.

I am trying to Solve this issue with why the pulley throttle body brackets will barely move. There are These two brackets, a black one in the front and a chrome one in the back, I used to chrome one to Rev the engine, now for some reason when I pull the chrome one back it gets stored by the black bracket, from what I see online both the by black and chrome bracket should move. Don't know why they arent functioning.

ezone

One cable goes to the gas pedal, the other cable goes to the cruise control.
One cable spool probably freewheels when the other cable moves.


Post pics of what you are talking about?

Niaboc67

The one with the red line won't move at all, but the one in blue wants to move but anytime I move that one back it gets caught by the red one. So I can't get the cable off the throttle body. At this point I don't want to take the throttle body off, just clean it per your recommendation. But it seems to clean it I have to move the blue one back to open up the valve.

Thank you

ezone

How would you get it all reassembled if you pulled the entire throttle body off?

You may as well just take the whole thing off and get it over with. Then you can figure out how the linkage works while holding it all in your hands.


Is the black wheel plastic, and was the cable already detached from it?

Niaboc67

That was just a picture I found online. Mine is still in there and all. Just that that red line one won't move at all while the blue one freely moves but gets caught on the red one. It all feels like metal.

ezone

I guess I'm not understanding what you are trying to describe.

Either wheel should open the throttle, but each probably operates independently, necessary so a cable doesn't inadvertently become detached or caught in the throttle linkage.

Open the throttle by hand using the wheels instead of the cables. Rotate the wheel all the way to its natural stop (throttle blade wide open inside the throttle body) then you should have plenty of slack to get the cable ends attached or detached.

Niaboc67

Solved. Apparently the thing just needed the pedal to be pumped a few times. All is well, was overthinking all that. Have the battery back from autozone along with a new terminal for the positive. Will clean the throttle body, IACV tomorrow then install the battery and let it run for 10+ minutes. See how it all turns out.

ezone

I hope it's not a painted one. If it is, either exchange it for a plain one or scrape all the paint off where the thing has to make contact with the battery post and the wires. Paint doesn't conduct electricity.

Niaboc67

This one is all zinc plated no paint on it. I think I'm good with it's much better quality than what's on there now.

Niaboc67

I cleaned the throttle body and IAC. Re-assembled everything. But big problem, when I was re-assembling the battery (on the postive terminal) my socket wrench + extention made contact with the negative terminal and started sparking, I know stupid mistake. So I am worried I may have seriously damaged the battery, a few small chips came off of post. I went on anyways and put then put the negative terminal on. Then put my multimeter to it, read 12.4v. Then I went to start the car, all the dash lights came on as expected but then I turned the key and a click and then nothing all black. It's just like that turn the key hear one click and the whole dash goes black. I don't know if this is because I may have shorted the battery or if it's the same problem from before. As someone else said maybe it's some electrical gremlins.

ezone

You don't have gremlins LOL, yours could be solved in a jiffy if I had it in my bay at work.

I get to deal with crap that has gremlins. I have a 2015 Fit in my bay at work that was hit by lightning....Took out (so far) at least 4 control units, communication networks are down in the car and since the PCM was fried the scanner could not link up with anything in the car at all.
First round I figured out it took out the electric steering and the PCM so those have been replaced. Now I can't program the keys into the PCM and there's a "check charging system" message, so I recheck things and now find I need the Immobilizer unit and the battery monitor, and I am waiting on those two so I can finally see what else was taken out. You wouldn't believe what I have to go through just to figure these out. I don't have a spare car to use for test parts either.




Back to your car.
How long did you let the wrench lay there? A second or two? Did things glow red? How much melting happened?




Try to crank it so everything goes dead.
I suppose you mean the dash warning lights are gone too?
Everything quit all of a sudden, or did it quit slowly?
Got more helpful video?

Make it quit and keep it that way (failed state)
Test voltage on the battery posts (not the cable clamps) while someone else is holding the key down so nothing works. (Try to do this quicker than 5 seconds so you don't burn anything up.)
Whatcha got there?

Where's the heat at?

Feel the positive battery cable that goes from the battery to the engine/starter, is that HOT? (is the engine locked up causing the starter to bind? Or bad starter?)

When the battery was tested, did they use a little electronic gizmo with small dinky cables that gives a printout, or did they wheel out a real load tester with cables as big as heavy duty jumper cables and put a couple hundred amps load on the battery? (a good load test using one of these machines usually will cause heat/smell/smoke out the top of the tester)

Have you tried using this battery to start a different car?
Have you tried a different battery in this car?

Niaboc67

I'd bet this is probably a simple fix but alas this is my first car and working to get it back on the road.

I think that wrench was on there for maybe 4 seconds or less. Nothing melted just sparks flew around then I was able to knock the wrench away.
When I go to turn the key, the very first time, everything came on, gas gauge the whole nine. Then I turned the key and that CLICK and the only thing that was illuminated was the emergency brake light. Then at that point when I kept it turned the emergency brake light would dim.

Everything quit immediately. There was one click, then nothing but that E-brake light. Would corrosion around the starter motor cause this? because it's a tight spot and I see there is an exposed wire down there. I tried the 50/50 baking soda water solution but it may have just foamed up down there and not really penetrated anything very well. Although what explains being able to jump start it before and have it work?

I got the battery charged at autozone, it was like a pretty big black box with jumper cables on it.

Here is a video a took two days ago. Although, when I went to start it a few minutes ago and I didn't get anything back, not even a click. It's like it's steadily getting drained somehow. Sometimes it makes rapid clicks which sound like it's coming from the starter, then, in the video it sounded like the clicks were coming from inside the cabin.


https://*******/YmWO

ezone

um, no. Not the way this car is wired.


Charged....but was it not tested after charging?

What are you clamping the jumper cables to? The outside of the two cable clamps? If you connected jumper cables to the cable clamps then it is still using everything the car normally uses EXCEPT the connections between battery and clamps or the battery itself.

Except it still sounded like it was weak even with the jumpers on it in the video from a couple days ago.

I was interested in what the car is acting like today. 4 seconds of dead short with a wrench shouldn't kill it.

I still want to know what the battery voltage is, when measured on the battery posts, while someone tries to crank the starter and everything goes dead.



Check this video at about 1 minute, see he has the meter leads on just one post and its cable, this is how one would pinpoint a bad connection between the post and clamp, or anywhere else on the car..... it works for either cable.
While loaded (like trying to use the starter) a bad connection would show anywhere from a volt or two, to as much as full battery voltage (100% voltage drop) depending on how bad the connection is......a good connection would show minimal voltage drop across the connection.

Niaboc67

Thanks!

First did the drop down test and there was no addition in volts. But huzzah! it started. I thought I had cleaned the negative terminal better before but I checked again and there was consistent green fuzz under the clamps. Also did what you said and scrapped a lot of the paint on critical points with some sandpaper. I got someone else to start it, once the key was turned in the "electrical" position? where the dash lights came on, the volts shot down to 12.2v and then when the key was turned the ignition position it shot down to 10.8v and then hesitated for a second and started up!

It idled a lot smoother after taking out the mouse nest and spraying/scrubbing down the throttle body. After about a minute or two it began to steadily rise on the tachometer. Before it was WAY worse though, it would go up and down between 1 and 2 all by itself. But now this time it just steadily climbed from 0 to 2 and then smoke began coming out from around the radiatior, I think this may have been smoke due to coolant residue, however, it got worse and worse to the point where I thought best to turn it off, also the temp gauge began to climb quite steadily.

Could this be because of a bad 02 sensor? the one on there is bad. Also think I need new airbox and cabin filters.

Also, at the moment the thermostat is not in there. Wondering if either of these could be causing the smoke or/and idling issue.

Colin42

iac may be stuck open from cleaning it, try giving it a light smack with a screwdriver handle.

put the thermostat in

did the temp gauge go above half way?
Was the cooling system full, no air pockets, no leaks? did you spill coolant everywhere when you took the thermostat out?

why do you think o2 sensor? do you have a code for one?
you probably need to do an idle relearn

Niaboc67

@ezone
@Colin42

Grateful for all the advice here!

The car starts right up now, sounds a lot smoother less hesitation on the start. The engine sounds like butter. When I started it today the tachometer went to 1.5rmp right off the get go, so I guess that's a high idle. Then about 20 seconds after the start, the tachometer began to climb to about 2 then 2.5 while simultaneously smoking at the header area of the exhaust manifold, seemed related. I found an image and highlighted where I saw the smoke coming out of:





Weeks before I let the car sit for an extended amount of time, the car threw a code and the guy at advanced auto parts said it was an O2-sensor, I heard that the upstream 02 sensor is what regulates air and fuel ratios so could that be causing the high idle and smoke around that area?

Thanks again!

ezone

No it can't cause high idle.

The smoke is probably just crap that needs to be given time to burn off the exhaust. You gotta get the thing out on the road and drive it for a while to do that.



The high idle: Does the idle surge repeatedly?

Do you have some slack or droop in the two throttle cables, neither is pulled tight and holding the throttle blade partway open?


If cables are not the issue....
Remove the lid from the air filter box. Start the engine and let the idle climb. Twist the throttle toward the fully closed position just to make sure the cables aren't holding it slightly open. (throttle blade must be completely closed)
Then use your fingers to block the hole in the inside of the throttle body (this is the air passage for the IAC valve). Does blocking the port cause the idle to drop to normal speed or lower?

Niaboc67

Couldn't it be an oil leak or a bad gasket down there? The smoke is thick white smoke. Almost looks like cigarette smoke but THICK pummels of the stuff. What crap could be stuck in there? It's weird because I thought I saw the last of this smoke because I let it run for 10 minutes a few days ago, then it suddenly went away, seemed like whatever it was burned off. But then it started again and it looks like the smoke has gotten way worse.

When you say surge repeatedly is that to say like going from 1 to 2 back and fourth furiously? It seems to start up fine then at a point in time it just starts to rev itself and climb from 1 to 2 to almost 3 quite steadily wouldn't say it's quick just sort of kicks in and steadily rises, like if someone lightly pressed on the pedal.

Another thing is, before I did the throttle body and IACV and got the mouse nest out of the air box, the car would rev between 1 and 2 repeatedly, sounded rough as all hell. But now it's just a steady climber kind of idle. Thinking the idling could be a bad air filter because the one in there looked kind of beat up.

ezone

The smoke is probably just crap that needs to be given time to burn off the exhaust. You gotta get the thing out on the road and drive it for a while to do that.



The high idle: .....

Do you have some slack or droop in the two throttle cables, neither is pulled tight and holding the throttle blade partway open?


If cables are not the issue....
Remove the lid from the air filter box. Start the engine and let the idle climb. Twist the throttle toward the fully closed position just to make sure the cables aren't holding it slightly open. (throttle blade must be completely closed)
Then use your fingers to block the hole in the inside of the throttle body (this is the air passage for the IAC valve). Does blocking the port cause the idle to drop to normal speed or lower?



Sounded like the throttle blade is being held slightly open. If it were completely closed and idling too high it should be surging after warmup.

Niaboc67

I took the airbox that was on top of the throttle body this morning. Re-checked the cables, there is slack. The levers are in the full closed position as far as they can go. When I took the airbox off, I went to take out the bolts on the workbench. The bolts were rusted, to the point where they turned to dust easily and would round off when a socket was applied. When I used a screwdriver it just created an oval indentation in the middle of the bolts. Not sure how to progress from here. Should I get a new airbox?

Also, with the airbox completely off, tube from the engine being exposed plus the naked throttle body, is it ok to start the car with all that off? I want to test plugging the throttle body air hole to see if anything changes.

Thanks

ezone

Remove the IAT sensor from the airbox and plug it into its connector, then you can start it without setting codes.

If you can't fix the corroded hardware, the air box probably needs replaced. Or get a CAI or some other filter+tube set aftermarket if you want.

Niaboc67

Cool, I think that's what I'll do.
I have the entire air filter box off, are you saying I should put the sensor plug back into the air box but just have it to the side somewhere, and not over the throttle body? Is it ok to start it without the air filter box on top?

ezone

If you turn the key on without the IAT sensor connected it will set a code. Just connect it and let it dangle.


Don't throw sand and gravel in the throttle, it will be ok to run for testing purposes

Niaboc67

Ok, just want to verify before I do this. So I plug the IAT sensor back into the air filter box and put the box to the right side of the engine somewhere. Then start the car, and cover the throttle body with my hand to see if the idling goes down, is that right?

Niaboc67

I don't know why but it seems I always have to sand the terminals down each time like it's not getting a good enough connection. I started the first time today and I got the same, dash lights coming on,turn the key click, nothing scenario again. I sandpapered the terminals once more and it started right up. I went to the IACV and put two fingers over the slot, the cars revving went down significantly. Every time I put my fingers over it, the rpms lowered. When I left a gap between my two fingers it seemed to idle quite nicely, like it was getting too much air before. Didn't see any smoke this time, only let it run for about 3 minutes or less. When I completely covered up the IACV for about 5 seconds the car completely turned off. Curious what this could all mean.

Thank you