drhawkinz

I'm pretty sure the throwout bearing is going bad on my car but wanted confirmation/second opinion. 2002 EX 177K

If I push the clutch all the way in and put the car in gear I hear a whining that seems to be consistent with the engine rotation. If I rev the engine the whining gets faster and higher pitched. If I move the shifter out of gear then the noise slows to a stop.

The noise also stops if I left off the clutch a little bit. So if I don't push it to the floor then I can move between gears without hearing anything. This part doesn't make sense to me if the bearing is going bad.

With the pedal all the way to the floor I hear the noise at the same consistency no matter what gear I shift into.

From what I've read in other threads it seems to be the throwout bearing that is going bad but was hoping someone could confirm that from the noises it makes. Or should I be looking somewhere else?

It looks like the throwout bearing is also called a clutch release bearing. So if I order a clutch kit that comes with a clutch release bearing then I can replace the clutch and bad bearing all at the same time right? Thanks for the help!

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

Sounds like throw out bearing.

When I was fixing up an old Civic to sell I had a noise that I was not sure if it was throw out or input shaft bearing. Input shaft bearing seemed to be the opinion. I made a video of the noise. Does it not sound like this? This sound was only heard with foot off the clutch and in gear.

ezone

I'm torn.

Most of the description sounds like it should be a throwout bearing bad, but the line above makes me wonder if you may have a pilot bearing bad.

drhawkinz

Here's some videos of the noise. When I drive the car it sounds the same as it always did. Now it's just harder to shift gears. It gets tough entering the gear and then it slides down into place. When the clutch engages, it kind of bangs into gear, you can't hear it, just feel it.

I should of narrated the videos but I have the clutch in with the gear box out of gear. Then into first, second, then I slide it out of gear and you can hear the bearing spin down. Then if I take a little pressure off the clutch it will shift without the whining noise at all.


This is shot at the same time but the noise from outside the car.

ezone

Lemmesee if I got this right...

Clutch pedal on the floor
Shifter in neutral
no noise?

Noise will start as you apply pressure on shifter to move it toward a gear?



Clutch pedal on the floor
Shifter in gear
makes noise?

Move shifter to neutral, noise slowly goes away (I heard the 'winding down' effect)



The key to this is knowing when the trans input shaft is held stationary and when it can spin. If the noise only occurs when the input shaft is not spinning, it's a bad pilot bearing.

drhawkinz

Right, the only time it makes noise in this setup is when I crank the car, then it goes away. Then as soon as I put it in gear, it starts whining. What you hear at the beginning of the video is me moving the shifter from neutral to first to second then back to neutral.


Yes, with the shifter in any gear you hear the same whine. If I rev the engine the whine revs up as well. Moving the gear box to neutral the whining will slow to a stop. The whining also stops if I let off the clutch a little. So I left off the clutch say 25% then the whining isn't present no matter what position the gear box is in.


How would the throwout bearing and pilot bearing affect shifting while driving?

ezone

Because at that point the clutch disc is spinning, therefore the input shaft is also spinning the same speed as the flywheel.

When the pilot bearing (between crankshaft and input shaft) has both races rotating at equal speeds, no noise.

The noise is present when the bearing is in use, its two races at different speeds. It doesn't have to make noise all the time either.


In your case it sounds to me like the throwout is fine.
It sounds like your pilot bearing is bad, probably trying to lock up and causing the input shaft to not spin freely (or quit spinning) when you push the clutch pedal to the floor. Because the input shaft isn't quite allowed to fully de-couple from the crankshaft (due to dragging pilot bearing) it can make it hard to shift as the input shaft has a mind of its own even though you pushed the clutch pedal down.

The dragging pilot bearing has a very similar effect to a clutch that won't release completely, with the addition of the noise of a failing bearing.

drhawkinz

Sounds like a pain to get to. After a few googles, all the videos that reference replacing a pilot bearing all show the transmission out of the car. So I'm assuming I need to drop the trans in order to replace this bearing?

I was hoping to get to it with just separating the trans from the engine. It looks like the bearing is inside the middle of the flywheel but maybe that's just how it looks from the diagram. I assume it's part 13 from this diagram?

ezone

You were going to drop the trans to replace the throwout bearing anyway, yes?

Which wouldn't fix the problem (assuming I'm correct).....and then after cussing a lot you would be removing the trans a second time to fix the problem.


Taking the flywheel off and replacing the pilot bearing is only like 20 minutes (GUESS) of extra work beyond a clutch replacement. It's driven into the flywheel from the crankshaft side of it, so the flywheel has to be removed to replace the bearing.

Item #13, yes.


Seems like most aftermarket clutch kits I have seen already include the pilot bearing?

drhawkinz

There's a DIY up here where they didn't have to take it out of the car. Was hoping to do the same but maybe dropping it will be better since I've never done it before. I'm going to do some more research before I start. Might have to get the Service Manual, not sure if the Haynes manual is going to cut it on this one. Hahaha.

I'm assuming the little bearing in the picture is the pilot bearing? This exedy kit seems recommended by a lot of people so I'll probably end up getting this.

ezone

I would probably take the trans all the way out of the car to do the flywheel and pilot bearing. I know it probably can all be done with the trans just pulled away from the engine, but it's a tight squeeze to do it that way IMO.

I've got the hoist and trans jack and subframe holder for the trans jack at my disposal, so that makes it easier for me.

Yes the pilot bearing is the small one below the packet of spline grease.

Colin42

I just installed that kit Sunday when I swapped my trans, it works awesome, the car drives like a brand new car now. Make sure you have 12 point sockets for the flywheel and pressure plate. 17mm and 10mm for mine (05 LX). And a 32mm for the axle nuts.

It would probably be better to remove the trans from the car. It's a pain in the *** to do. but it would be more of a pain to leave it in.

drhawkinz

finally got some time and a break from the rain to work on the car. I'm assuming it's normal for there to be a good amount of dust on the throw out bear and inside the trans housing?

I figured the dust came from the clutch disc which must burn up like a brake disc and therefore produce dust.

Looks like the clutch disc has seen better days.

ezone

Absolutely normal.
Avoid breathing the dust....



That's some effed up spring action there. Was that the cause of any noise, or causing the clutch to not release?

drhawkinz

I don't think so but not sure.

I pulled the pilot bearing out of the flywheel and I can hold the middle and spin it pretty freely. If I shake it I can hear the ball bearings moving around inside. The new one doesn't make a sound when I shake it and it doesn't spin freely like the old one. So I'm assuming this is culprit as you had suggested.

I'm sure the clutch disc would have blown apart sooner or later.

drhawkinz

Finally got everything back together today! The whining is gone and the new clutch feels nice and smooth. Thanks for all your help!!!

VtecYo2002

I'm having a noise issue too with the clutch however for me it's the complete opposite....

When I'm off the clutch it's a high pitch whining noise, almost like a whistle, and when I press the clutch (or even lay my foot on the clutch) the noise fades away. Yes I have 175,000 miles on the car, and yes I believe the clutch has been replaced in that time. Could it also be my throw out bearing?

ezone

Whining, or is it a high pitch squeaking?

Got a recording of the noise?
Maybe showing how the noise changes when you move the clutch pedal various amounts?

Colin42

could be the input shaft bearing, go read here https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...save-some.html

VtecYo2002

Yep thanks guy's I believe the symptoms of it being the INPUT shaft bearing is what I have. When (if) I replace the clutch, does this come with the assembly or do I have to order it separately?

Since I don't have the confidence needed to replace the clutch myself, I'm going to have to talk to a shop and want to explicitly explain what I desire to be done lol

ezone

Separate from a clutch.

To do a clutch job, you remove the transmission to replace the clutch set....then reinstall the transmission.

The input shaft bearings are inside the transmission. You have to remove the transmission, then split it apart, exposing all the gears and bearings and shifter mechanisms inside the transmission.



IMO it's not work for a rookie.

VtecYo2002

Welp it looks like I'll live with it then