Cylinder Misfire (problem found @ post 17)
02-18-2017
#31
Re: Cylinder Misfire (problem found @ post 17)
Well, local stores don't have a good compression checker so I have to order one. (They offer one from OEM Tools that has consistently poor reviews.) The problem is, I don't know which size adapter fits the car. They show sizes of 12mm, 14mm and 18mm for some of the adapters--no clue as to what this Civic might be, although I suspect it is 14mm x 1.25 based on some searches I've tried.
02-18-2017
#32
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Cylinder Misfire (problem found @ post 17)
Well, local stores don't have a good compression checker so I have to order one.
They show sizes of 12mm, 14mm and 18mm for some of the adapters--no clue as to what this Civic might be, although I suspect it is 14mm x 1.25 based on some searches I've tried.
02-20-2017
#33
Re: Cylinder Misfire (problem found @ post 17)
I'm chilled to the bone but I have an update to report.
1. Oil is leaking out of one of the small gaskets at the bottom of spark plug hole #2. When I pulled the plug, it was partly covered in oil and I had to clean out the hole, as well as clean off the coil, the plug, etc.
2. Plug #2 has a small hunk missing out of the insulator around the center electrode. (Plus, I am not exactly thrilled to find Bosch Platinum plugs in there.) So, I have to hunt down some plugs locally, or wait two days to get some online. Likely will go with NGK as I always have. The plug also looks like it has some blackened oil deposits on it...however, since the plug got soaked in oil when I pulled it out, it is hard to tell if it is oil that was baked on, or residue from . (Although after cleaning it a little with some solvent and towel, it did have a bit of black residue on it. http://imgur.com/a/aH2gS )
3. Plugs #1 and #2 seemed really loose. It barely took anything to loosen them. #3 and #4 has slightly more resistance, but not much. I've read of plugs in aluminum blocks loosening over time due to heat/cool cycles, but my CR-V never experienced that.
4. Compression check! The new gauge arrived today. Cylinders 1, 3 and 4 measured 210-215 psi on two tries each. #2? 145 psi, on three tries.
5. So at idle, there is a loud "putt" in the exhaust when it misfires. It is not constant, but it is now misfiring more than it did previously.
My neighbor agrees it is possibly a valve (and they don't do valve work at his shop). With the compression low on one cylinder, that seems to rule out the head gasket being burned through between two cylinders (like pictured above).
I am getting plugs, soon. I already know I need to get a complete valve cover gasket cover set. (Pretty familiar with it--I replaced all of the same on my '97 CR-V.)
So that leaves me wondering what I should do when the valve cover is off. Should I check valve clearance? If I were extremely lucky, one or both exhaust valves might be out of adjustment and not burned. But I would think that is about all I can do, short of pulling the head off.
Maybe... Loose plug --> leaking gasket --> oil trickled into cylinder --> bad things happened?
1. Oil is leaking out of one of the small gaskets at the bottom of spark plug hole #2. When I pulled the plug, it was partly covered in oil and I had to clean out the hole, as well as clean off the coil, the plug, etc.
2. Plug #2 has a small hunk missing out of the insulator around the center electrode. (Plus, I am not exactly thrilled to find Bosch Platinum plugs in there.) So, I have to hunt down some plugs locally, or wait two days to get some online. Likely will go with NGK as I always have. The plug also looks like it has some blackened oil deposits on it...however, since the plug got soaked in oil when I pulled it out, it is hard to tell if it is oil that was baked on, or residue from . (Although after cleaning it a little with some solvent and towel, it did have a bit of black residue on it. http://imgur.com/a/aH2gS )
3. Plugs #1 and #2 seemed really loose. It barely took anything to loosen them. #3 and #4 has slightly more resistance, but not much. I've read of plugs in aluminum blocks loosening over time due to heat/cool cycles, but my CR-V never experienced that.
4. Compression check! The new gauge arrived today. Cylinders 1, 3 and 4 measured 210-215 psi on two tries each. #2? 145 psi, on three tries.
5. So at idle, there is a loud "putt" in the exhaust when it misfires. It is not constant, but it is now misfiring more than it did previously.
My neighbor agrees it is possibly a valve (and they don't do valve work at his shop). With the compression low on one cylinder, that seems to rule out the head gasket being burned through between two cylinders (like pictured above).
I am getting plugs, soon. I already know I need to get a complete valve cover gasket cover set. (Pretty familiar with it--I replaced all of the same on my '97 CR-V.)
So that leaves me wondering what I should do when the valve cover is off. Should I check valve clearance? If I were extremely lucky, one or both exhaust valves might be out of adjustment and not burned. But I would think that is about all I can do, short of pulling the head off.
Maybe... Loose plug --> leaking gasket --> oil trickled into cylinder --> bad things happened?
02-20-2017
#34
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Cylinder Misfire (problem found @ post 17)
Oil normally gets in via the round tube seal in the valve cover, you may be able to see a part of the round seals lip got hung up on the edge of the tube during the last install.
Loose plugs, blame the last installer. Get NGK or Denso.
Low compression--verify valve clearance first, then if valves were found to be too tight you need to recheck compression.
If it still has low compression, next step is leakdown check to prove where the leak is going (determine the cause of low compression)
Be ready to pull the head and send it off for a valve job.
Valve cover gaskets should be included in the head gasket kit you will be buying.
Hondas head gasket kit comes with the valve stem seals as well.
Loose plugs, blame the last installer. Get NGK or Denso.
Low compression--verify valve clearance first, then if valves were found to be too tight you need to recheck compression.
If it still has low compression, next step is leakdown check to prove where the leak is going (determine the cause of low compression)
Be ready to pull the head and send it off for a valve job.
Valve cover gaskets should be included in the head gasket kit you will be buying.
Hondas head gasket kit comes with the valve stem seals as well.
02-20-2017
#35
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Cylinder Misfire (problem found @ post 17)
Forgot to ask, how did the other plugs look? Do they have cake-like ash deposits built up or are they clean?
02-20-2017
#36
Re: Cylinder Misfire (problem found @ post 17)
Thanks @ezone!
The other plugs looked OK--sort of a thin brownish-white deposit on all of them, all the same. Pretty much what I remember typical "old plugs" looking like, in other words. Meant to take a photo of them but it was getting late. Only the #2 plug has those dark brown/black deposits on it. The coils all looked fine (no tracks, no cracks).
It makes me wonder what happened to the piece of the insulator that broke off.
Am I OK with an aftermarket valve cover gasket set? I do want to replace the set since it is leaking oil from another spot or two on the valve cover, in addition to leaking into the spark plug tube. I think I still have some Hondabond here for the corners.
The other plugs looked OK--sort of a thin brownish-white deposit on all of them, all the same. Pretty much what I remember typical "old plugs" looking like, in other words. Meant to take a photo of them but it was getting late. Only the #2 plug has those dark brown/black deposits on it. The coils all looked fine (no tracks, no cracks).
It makes me wonder what happened to the piece of the insulator that broke off.
Am I OK with an aftermarket valve cover gasket set? I do want to replace the set since it is leaking oil from another spot or two on the valve cover, in addition to leaking into the spark plug tube. I think I still have some Hondabond here for the corners.
02-20-2017
#37
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Cylinder Misfire (problem found @ post 17)
I wouldn't bother buying a valve cover gasket now, I'm guessing (reasonably sure) you're gonna be pulling the head off real soon to fix the low compression problem and it's included in the set.
Check valve adjustments and recheck compression again so you can figure out the next steps ASAP (pulling the head).
Strongly urge head gasket set from Honda.....some people have reported super premature failures with Felpro here.
Broken piece of insulator is long gone now. Chewed up and spit out in a flash as soon as it happened. Look for cylinder wall and piston damage after the head is removed.3
If it consumes oil, time to do rings? If not doing rings, buy the $3 NGK plugs instead of the $12 plugs?
Check valve adjustments and recheck compression again so you can figure out the next steps ASAP (pulling the head).
Strongly urge head gasket set from Honda.....some people have reported super premature failures with Felpro here.
Broken piece of insulator is long gone now. Chewed up and spit out in a flash as soon as it happened. Look for cylinder wall and piston damage after the head is removed.3
If it consumes oil, time to do rings? If not doing rings, buy the $3 NGK plugs instead of the $12 plugs?
02-28-2017
#38
Re: Cylinder Misfire (problem found @ post 17)
It's not burning oil, but it's leaking out. Valve cover gasket, and especially the oil pan gasket. I agree I likely will end up pulling the head off of it. The valves in this engine don't have a tendency to tighten up like they do in the B20B (in the first-gen CR-V), do they?
I do hear the valve popping in the exhaust. But I will say that with the replaced plugs, it runs a lot better now, and the CEL has been off since I replaced them. So, I can get back to this when the weather breaks. Not ideal I know, but the garage is used for storage and I have to do all the work outside.
I do hear the valve popping in the exhaust. But I will say that with the replaced plugs, it runs a lot better now, and the CEL has been off since I replaced them. So, I can get back to this when the weather breaks. Not ideal I know, but the garage is used for storage and I have to do all the work outside.
02-28-2017
#39
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Cylinder Misfire (problem found @ post 17)
The valves in this engine don't have a tendency to tighten up like
But I will say that with the replaced plugs, it runs a lot better now, and the CEL has been off since I replaced them.
but if a bad plug were causing it to misfire constantly it may have had washed out rings resulting in low compression due to loss of oil seal.
(Plus, I am not exactly thrilled to find Bosch Platinum plugs in there.)
My favorite Botch Platinum spark plug installation tool:
Can hit the dumpster at the speed of sound from 20 paces away
05-24-2017
#40
Re: Cylinder Misfire (problem found @ post 17)
Quick update on this old thread...
I did a compression check. #2 was at 145, and the rest were above 200 (210, I believe). The CEL has mostly stayed off.
The real problem now is the oil. Last week, I backed up really close to our outdoor trash can, and noticed that in the short time the exhaust was at the can, it left a rather thick sooty mark on it, more so than others would leave on it. So beyond the various leaks (valve cover and oil pan), I fear it's burning oil now. Just the one cylinder, or all of them? No idea.
It makes me wonder if it's even worth opening up the engine. (We certainly can't be without a car for a week or two while I try to find time to work on it.) I don't know if I could find a good JDM engine for it (D17A1 does not seem that easy to find), but that might be the better option. Who knows what anyone might find in this engine when it's opened up--it has 233k on it now. Can't say I'd trust a salvage yard engine to be any better than what I have (especially since I see quite a few 7th gen Civics with blown engines for sale locally).
I did a compression check. #2 was at 145, and the rest were above 200 (210, I believe). The CEL has mostly stayed off.
The real problem now is the oil. Last week, I backed up really close to our outdoor trash can, and noticed that in the short time the exhaust was at the can, it left a rather thick sooty mark on it, more so than others would leave on it. So beyond the various leaks (valve cover and oil pan), I fear it's burning oil now. Just the one cylinder, or all of them? No idea.
It makes me wonder if it's even worth opening up the engine. (We certainly can't be without a car for a week or two while I try to find time to work on it.) I don't know if I could find a good JDM engine for it (D17A1 does not seem that easy to find), but that might be the better option. Who knows what anyone might find in this engine when it's opened up--it has 233k on it now. Can't say I'd trust a salvage yard engine to be any better than what I have (especially since I see quite a few 7th gen Civics with blown engines for sale locally).
05-24-2017
#41
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Cylinder Misfire (problem found @ post 17)
find a good JDM engine for it
Can't say I'd trust a salvage yard engine to be any better
Can't say I'd trust a salvage yard engine to be any better
if it's even worth opening up the engine
www.car-part.com
