Sep

2004 honda civic 1.7 non-vtech overheats and the temp gauges fluctuates. The air vents as heat at times and cold air at times. Notice there is steam coming out from the radiator cap when it gets hot and a gurgling noise. The car had the headgasket replaced, thermostat, coolant temp switch, radiator cap, new antifreeze, water pump and timing belt. Also had the machine shop machine the head for a flat surface. This was all done October. Been driving the car since and now its been overheating and causing all theses issues. All theses parts are OEM from Honda. I took it Honda last week and they said they found no problems and everything works fine. Picked up the car and been driving for 4 days and it had no problems at all. Today it started having theses overheating issues again. I don't know where to start. Looking for any help. Honda has also told me it passes the headgasket test twice and after speaking to them today. They said there might be a crack in the cylinder causing your problems. I check for the cylinder head and block and found no cracks when I changed the gasket few months ago.

ezone

Refill the cooling system and burp out air pockets.

Look for leaks, like the water pump or radiator or evidence of leakage around the cylinder head area. Many leaks are extremely slow so you may not see anything obviously wet.

Sep

Found the coolant low, I filled it up and bleed w/e air was in the system. It stop overheating. Drove the car home and the temp stayed around halfway but notice some smoke coming from the hood. The coolant reservoir was pushing out coolant and smoking a lot and thats probably why im running low on coolant. I'm going to pull off the head again this week and see what I find. I did replace the headgasket 2 months ago. Going to recheck for cracks in the cylinder head.

ezone

If the reservoir was only filled to the full or max line and not completely filled to the top when you filled the radiator (gotta leave room for expansion in the reservoir), then it sounds like the typical head gasket failure symptom.

Need to figure out why the first head gasket repair did not last and correct the problem, or you may repeat this all over again.

Wankenstein

May not help your issue but won't hurt either: Check the reservoir intake and hose from radiator to reservoir for blockage.

Did you put the front of the car on jack stands and set heater to max heat when you bled the coolant system?
When you had the initial head gasket issue last year did you first try to fix it with a head-gasket sealant?.. (hope the answer is no).

Did you or Honda dealership pressure test the radiator and coolant system?
What proceedure did the dealership use to test the head gasket: leakdown and/or block test ?

Sep

I pulled the cylinder head off. I didn't check for any warpage, don't have a straight edge tool for it and the proper feeler gauge. The cylinder head was not warped the last time I did the gasket replaced, but I had the head resurfaced anyways.

I notice the cylinder head having a small nick on the surface and also on the gasket. I'm thinking that whats causing the issue of the overheating. I'm thinking of sending the head out to a machine shop and have them resurface and check the head or any damages. The gasket also had a 2 small nicks on it, one of the nicks would meet up with the small nick on the head. I would like you input on the my findings.

https://goo.gl/photos/FYnyeHTmsBRrE5wk7

https://goo.gl/photos/2NDh4vEXobGuvW2C8

https://goo.gl/photos/yiE6PaGbJChcW7Nr9

Sep

I didn't use head gasket sealer when I replaced it last time. The hose for the reservoir looks good. Yea I did bleed the car on jacks too. Honda told me they pressure tested the cooling system and they did not tell me how they tested the gasket.

Wankenstein

Spend the $10 and get a straight-edge at HF. Check both the cylinder head and the block for warpage with straight-edge and feeler gauges.


There are wear markers on the head to determine where it should not be milled past. Hopefully your's isn't at that point yet. The spots in the pics you posted are suspect..look fairly deep.

ezone

It would have been nice to know which cylinders had a leakage problem before taking it apart, that way you would have known where to be looking.

I'd just have the machine shop check flatness.
A decent machinist can measure total head height to see if it has enough to resurface safely.

Dink marks in the head and gasket surfaces kinda look like some bits of trash might have got caught during assembly or something, but it's damn hard to tell from just some pics.

What I do notice is - the machining lines in the head surface.....Can you hang your fingernail in the lines or feel them with your nail, or is the surface glass smooth?

The MLS gasket is not very forgiving when it comes to machining, the surfaces have to be damn smooth. The block is very smooth, the head needs to be that smooth too.

Wankenstein

Out of curiosity was the head gasket initially installed as it's shown in your pics: (all) black side facing up towards bottom of cylinder head?

I know it's late for this but you may want to call the dealership and ask them what test they did to rule out a head gasket breach. A head gasket breach wouldn't be intermittent. A leakdown test would be the most definitive and would have most likely caught the leak Ezone is referring to. My guess is they probably did either a block test or more likely just half-assed it with a compression test. If, they did the headgasket and TB replacements and now are telling you there's no issue it may have been their way of skirting their responsibility.
If you did the HG and TB then my guess is incorrect.

Sep

Yea, the all black side was facing the cylinder head. The head is at the machibe shop now and having it checked out for any cracks and warpage

Sep

*Update* The cylinder head was resurfaced it was warped and has no cracks. Installed new head gasket. bleed all the air out of the cooling system with the front of car jacked up and heat on max.

It drove good with no issues for 4 days until this morning. The temp gauge started to fluctuate after is was all warmed up. Did not overheat but the temp was getting up there. Notice smoke coming from radiator cap.

I checked the car after work. I had to add more coolant and bleed more of the air out of the system. I notice the upper coolant hose was getting hot and the lower hose was staying cold. The radiator cap started to smoke again after it warmed up too.

I believe the thermostat is stuck and I'm going to change the thermostat this friday. Also going to change the coolant temp switch. (The cooling fans been acting kinda weird. After I started it after the headgasket replacement. During the bleeding procedure the fans kept kicking on and off while it was warming up and bleeding)

Any inputs would be great. Thanks guys!

ezone

spillage or leakage,
something has to be on the outside or escaping to the outside in order to see steam there
either way once the rad heats up to 180+ anything on it will steam for a while til its dried off.

fans will run whenever the AC compressor cycles on, and if it was set on defrost it can run the AC

Coolant temp switch should turn the fans on AFTER the bottom rad hose is screaming hot ....due to the flow design the fan switch senses liquid exiting the radiator bottom hose

it stat doesn't help then flow check the radiator

i would not expect a water pump impeller problem but you never know

Wankenstein

The possible suspects remaining are:

1) waterpump
2) thermostat
3) warped engine block (least likely)
4) blocked heater core
5) cooling fan + sensors

Any possibility of one or more of block's head bolt hole(s) might be stripped?

emich

check compression. You could have an exhaust valve/s leak and perfect head gasket

Sep

This morning the car to overheat. It got about 3/4ths of the way up on the gauge and then suddenly dropped below half. Just put a new thermostat in few days ago and bleed the air out of the cooling system. Yesterday I was just rechecking the car in the morning and while it warmed up and completing hot. The cooling fan would turn on but only for like 5-10 seconds and shut off. Dont know how long it should stay on. Also when I turn the a/c on the fans dont turn on but is that possible because its cold out? I might throw in a coolant temp switch. Im going to look at it tonight and il post what I find. Going to take it to the shop tomorrow and look more into.

Sep

Is there a site that sells honda parts at a discount? They qouted me $331 for a new one

Wankenstein

Pull one from a junk yard for $10. If you want a new one try Hondapartsnow.com

Sep

Ok tonight, I had to add like 1 quart of coolant into the radiator and add coolant to the overflow. Drove the car home and the temp gauge went to half way pretty quick and just stayed there. Found it odd to heat up so fast since its winter out here.

The air was coming out cold from the vents. At one point is got warm and stayed coming out warm for about few mins and went back to cold. At one point the I turned the air on and the temp gauge started to rise. I turn off the air and it started to decrease, cold air was only coming out of vents. It was a 25 min drive.

At home I notice the overflow empty and coolant around the side of the battery and dripping from the overflow cap. I did a chemical test on the coolant system for CO2. The test passed, the fluid did not change in any color.

I also notice on the radiator filler neck, the inner portion to it is a little beat up.
I'm thinking radiator cap is not sealing up because of the radiator inner portion is beat up and causing pressure to escape into the overflow container. I'm also thinking the heater core is clogged.

I'm taking it to the shop tomorrow and flush out the heater core and check for any external leaks.

Wankenstein

Make sure to research heater core flushing. Some people flush with water and some use compressed air. If it were mine I'd use low pressure water, do both forward and reverse flush. People have damaged their cores (causing leaks) by using too much water (or air) pressure while flushing. After flushing make sure to bleed air out entire coolant system.

Use an OEM radiator cap. Stants and other aftermarket brands do not fit as well. How long did you do the block test for? Did you rev the engine a bit too during the block test?
Did the machine shop do a valve lapp job or change valve stem seals? Did they say anything to you about the condition of the valves and seating?

ezone

Forgot about this thread.
If this radiator was in when the overheat took place, it could be damaged from steam erosion.
The smaller gasket of the radiator cap has to seal the pressure, and the inner ring in the radiator neck is where it seals.
IF that area of the neck was damaged it won't hold system pressure (up to about 15 PSI) and would then push liquid into the reservoir.

If the topmost surface of the neck was damaged, it would also leak coolant to the outside.

Wankenstein

Can the neck be welded or will it need replacement?

ezone

Plastic/nylon, replace.