mrohitredd

So i have these AC issues on my car.
First i got rid of all the leaks & was told that the Compressor is the main problem . The AC is intermittent. It blows cold for few mins & warm/hot for few. The compressor engages on and off.
I went to get this checked & thought of replacing the Clutch Assembly, but was told by a guy at a shop that the whole compressor needs to be replaced coz it is not holding any pressure & even the "dryer" (i dont know what is that & what does it do ). So now after spending close to $300 already till date (AC Checks, Leaks, etc etc), i thought replacing the Clutch Assembly (bought one for $120 on Amazon) will work . But now it looks more than that ...


As per what the shop guy said, it will cost me around $850 to replace the compressor with dryer & get the VENTS BLOW COLD !

Can someone please help me decide what to do ?
Shall i just replace the Clutch by my own (will that help ???) Is there a DIY to replace a AC Compressor Clutch... Searched a lot & couldn't find any... I was even told that replacing just the clutch might damage it eventually, coz the compressor is no good !

I am actually planning to change the car next March/April... so shall i just leave this AC job undone (just curious, if this wont effect anything else)?

mcnoople

Cars had been around for close to 70 years before AC became common. How much you need it all depends on your climate and your own personal tolerance for heat. I don't use my AC unless the wife or kids are in the car.

If the belt just runs the AC compressor and nothing else then you could just remove the belt. Even models that share the belt with the alternator commonly had a different belt available for models that had no AC. But as long as the compressor isn't locking up and staying engaged it should not cause any more problems on its own.

As far as the diagnosis from the shop. You say that it blows cold for a few minutes and then gets warm. And a shop told you that it has leaked out all the freon. That sounds a little fishy to me. If the system is empty it should not get cold at all ever.

Just remember non functional AC will affect resale value when you do go to sell.

mrohitredd

i might have confused you all somewhere...

first time, when i had the AC issue, i refilled the Freon. Then when i realized its more than just filling freon, i went to the shop where they got rid of all the leaks. Even after that, the intermittent AC issues are still there. So now when i went back to the shop , i was told that the compressor needs to be replaced.

I'm still thinking.. Does it help, if i just replace the AC Clutch ? or should i replace the whole compressor ?

what is a dryer by the way ?

ezone

Depends on what it REALLY needs.


How long does it work before it quits? Seconds? Minutes? An hour? What?
Receiver-drier. It's a canister that contains a filter, a bag of dessicant, and it also acts as a small reservoir for freon.

https://macsworldwide.wordpress.com/2010/10/13/what-is-a-receiver-drier/

mrohitredd

On a hot day... it usually works for few minutes (i put the fan on full blow so that the car gets cold inside) & go away... I open the windows for a while & then when the AC works after say ~10mins i repeat the same.

I was thinking to replace the whole compressor including the Drier... Is there a DIY write up somewhere ? Couldn't find one

Today i bought a Repair Manual for ES1 & it says little bit in detail of what bolts to unscrew in order to get the Compressor off, but doesn't say what all i have to do BEFORE & AFTER.

I have a bunch of questions regarding the right process...
How do i remove the Belt off the Clutch Pulley ?
Do i need to remove & refill Freon ? I saw a lot of people saying - USE VACUM & flush out all the old oil.... How do i do that at home with limited tools ?
How & where (i mean which end) do i remove the High & Low pressure pipes ?

I found this Youtube video for a 99 Civic... Not sure how he got the belt off & for what i'm capable of, i feel this to be a broken link...

>>>
Would really appreciate, if someone can find me a write up on this...

mrohitredd

also, i was thinking to buy these.. does these work ?

I know, OEM are a better option.. But right now i'm counting on every $ i spend.. Which one do you suggest ? Remanufactured from eBay ?

PAG Oil >>
Compressor >>
Drier >>
REMANUFACTURED >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-2002-HO...d4e775&vxp=mtr

ezone

If you are worried about money then figure out what it really needs. Don't blow money needlessly on stuff it doesn't need.

Figuring out the problem shouldn't be all that difficult.
I know I've posted 100+ times on the subject.....
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/197-mechanical-problems-vehicle-issues-fix-forum/364610-2009-civic-air-conditioning-system-mystery.html

This is on a newer car but the method is the same.




If it's a only clutch problem--- that can be accessed through the wheelwell without removing the compressor.



Technically it doesn't need a drier at all. Aftermarket compressor suppliers dictate the replacement though, because they may deny warranty if you don't replace it....And I'm thinking you don't need a compressor.

mrohitredd

Correct me if i'm wrong... I need a Multi-meter & a Circuit Tester to do these tests right ? (i might be asking some real stupid questions... )

ezone

Yes, plus a jumper wire. A paper clip might be good enough to do that job though.

mrohitredd

ok... flying out of town in the evening... will try this next week... Hope i can manage to get it done the right way ! Thanks eZone

mrohitredd

Ok... So the first TEST.. (i know a very basic one)

FANS -
1. Inside the cabin, Blower Fan runs good.
2. Radiator Fans are running good.

Compressor Clutch -
1. It engages on & off.
2. so, when it was NOT SUNNY OUTSIDE & about 65*F, it did engage for about 10 mins. And this is after behaving bad (no cold air) during a drive in hot weather.

By the way, why isn't the AC (while the clutch is engaged & supposed to blow cold air) blowing cold air as it did an year ago ?

I did not wait long enough to do the TAP Test (tapping the clutch plate when it stalls). How do i even get in there to tap (other than removing the wheel & making room for myself) ? - The only reason i asked is that is that im making sure that i'm talking about the right part which is right behind the front driver's side wheel.

Relay Test -
Is this the link i'm gonna follow - http://www.odyclub.com/forums/attach...odyacrelay.jpg ?
Is this in the Fuse Box under the hood ?

>>> Wonder which 2 terminals are we talking here ? I guess there are 3 wires connecting to the Compressor, right ?

Also, the last time i opened the clutch plate, i only found 1 washer (i read that there are 2 or 3 washers) & didnt know how to get the belt off the pulley (to get the whole clutch assembly out). Appreciate input on these...


Again, thanks a ton for all the help.

ezone

Gee, uhhhh in your first post you said it blows cold for a few minutes, then blows warm. Make up your mind!

It cannot blow cold air if the compressor is not running (clutch disengaged).

Not as cold as last year, or not cold at all?
Could be low on freon-- OR overcharged on freon (you DID add some earlier, yes?) in addition to the issue causing it to disengage when it gets hot. Could be other stuff too.

A set of pressure gauges can help determine what is really going on while it's running.

Looking through the wheelwell, splash shield removed for access (7th gen)





Yeah, you will refer to the top left square...and it's in the underhood fusebox, the layout is completely different from a van.
NOTE: The circuits attached to each parallel pair of terminals can be reversed with no adverse effect, so be careful with checking.

I'm mainly concerned with the pair that say 'to AC stator' and 'always hot 12v', verify those on your car are actually the same as labeled in the pic.



"B" is the clutch relay here





A pair of terminals in the relay socket, the pair that say 'to AC stator' and 'always hot 12v'



You would have to loosen the alternator to loosen and adjust the belt.
Wait on the clutch assembly......If you can't get the belt off you aren't gonna get the pulley off.

===========================

So..... Run the AC and get it to quit working.
See that the clutch plate is disengaged and not spinning with the pulley.
Shut engine off.

Remove clutch relay
Ohm test between battery neg terminal and relay socket terminal 'to ac stator', you should see 3-4ish ohms. Maybe 5 ohms with it hot.
If the reading is open circuit, that's a bad coil.
If you get the right reading, continue:

Use a paper clip to Jumper the pair that say 'to AC stator' and 'always hot 12v'
Does the clutch plate click?
If yes, you may have taken too much time to get this far and it's cooled off and will work for a while again.
If no, go push on the plate and see if it clicks onto the pulley.
If plate clicks on when you push it by hand, it's probably because the gap is too wide.
See below.




I did not know you had already been into it this far.
Did you put that washer back in?

Spec for clearance is 0.5mm.....IF yours has like a full millimeter of clutch plate movement when it engages, that will cause it to act like what you describe yours as doing....quit engaging when it heats up.
Remove the one washer and see if it helps.

Only if that is what was required to set the correct clearance when the unit was new.

mrohitredd

Sorry about the confusion i caused here... It does blow cold when the clutch is engaged & shuts off after few mins.
(i was greedy & was thinking why isnt it blowing as cold as it did last year when everything was fine... my bad )


Will try this, when its hot outside... I come back from work late & the temp drop doesnt allow me to do the testing - Hard to manage the time too


About a month ago, i saw a post somewhere in here where a guy was lucky to make it work when he removed the clutch, cleaned inside out & put it back... It did work for me until it started failing again ~last week.

And yes, i did put back the 1 washer i had...

A big thanq for all the time and detailed explanation you gave.. will try to do all these as soon as i can & get back to you with updates... Thanks again.

ezone

I saw that post and it made me scratch my head.....

Got well over 100,000 miles on this car?
What's the clutch movement (gap) look like?

I hate to jump and run off in a wrong direction, but I'm tempted to say start with removing the washer and see what happens. If you can get the effective clearance back down to near a half millimeter it would probably get it working consistently again. Plus, it's a totally free fix if it works.

mrohitredd

Since that temporary fix, I always thought the compressor clutch is the issue...

167777 & Running...

You actually pushed in the direction where I was looking at... Did that today... Removed the only washer out there (picture attached) & left the AC on for almost 40mins... It's 88F outside & humid... Car was cold inside... Seems to be a possible solution 'for now'.
Let's see how long does this work for me...


Again, if this repeats... I'll just go ahead replace the clutch...
Thanks a lot for all your help... You certainly helped me save some big $$$

ezone

That looks like it may be the thickest shim they give for it (I can actually see the edge of it LOL, it's not the paper thin ones)

Sounds like this is gonna let you get some more useful life out of the clutch, at least until it wears some more and there are no more shims to remove....It may last 10k, or it may last 50k or more. Or until something else craps out.

Good luck!

bsmiley

My AC button light is green, radiator fans run and it was working fine at noon today, but seems the compressor isn't turning on now.

I've done some searches and reading in the forum. (shocking, but true!)

I've never troubleshot the AC system before. My reading has indicated that I need to:

1. check Check the No. 1 (20A) fuse in the under-hood fuse/relay box and the No. 14 (10A) fuse in the under-dash fuse/relay box.

2. Remove the compressor clutch relay from the underhood fuse/relay box and test it. I can put a jumper wire between 1 & 2 and see if that kicks in the clutch. I can also check pin 1 to ground for battery voltage.

3. Disconnect the compressor clutch 1P connector and check for continuity.


If all of that is good I need check resistance with the compressor. (I'm confused about this one. Where am I reading across to check the resistance?)


If that is ~3ohms I need to remove the splash guard and access the compressor clutch. The service manual says this:

"Measure the clearance between the rotor pulley (A) and the
armature plate (B) all the way around. If the clearance is
not within specified limits, remove the armature plate (see
page 21-90) and add or remove shims as needed to
increase or decrease clearance.
Clearance: 0.5 + 0.15 mm (0.020 + 0.006 in.)
NOTE: The shims are available in four thicknesses: 0.1 mm, 0.2
mm, 0.4 mm, and 0.5 mm."

I have a couple of simple (i hope) questions...

1. I can remove the clutch without removing the compressor or the belt?

2. Do I need a special tool, the service manual directs removal of the compressor and use "A/C CLUTCH HOLDER 07NAB-HAC0100 "

ezone

If your fans come on when you turn on the AC, the system is trying to work and the PCM sees the AC request signal from the HVAC control panel.

Next checks I do are at the relay.
First locate your clutch relay. (See fusebox diagram in post 12.)

Get the system to quit working.
Open hood, see that the compressor clutch is no longer engaged, but the fans ARE running

Tap on the clutch relay: Does the compressor click on again? Bad relay.

If that did not do anything:
Remove clutch relay
(Also note if the relay will click as you remove and insert it in the socket)




it's the 4 pin micro relay in this diagram

Concern yourself with terminals 3 and 5 in the socket you pulled the relay from.

Connect meter black lead to battery ground and test with the other lead, (I use paper clips as my test probes to avoid damaging wiring terminals, or 3 and 5 can accept standard 1/4" male spade terminals):

You should find one has battery voltage (fuse is ok), and the other has 3-4 ohms (resistance to ground).


If you have an open instead of the correct resistance,
now you need to dig down to the compressor to ohm check the thermal protector circuit (on 2001 only).



If you have correct resistance,
now install a jumper wire between 3 and 5 and see if the clutch will click on.
If it won't click on, leave the jumper in place and turn the engine off.
Push on the clutch plate and see if it will stick to the pulley. If it now sticks, the gap is too big, figure out how to decrease the gap (remove a shim).


If you only need to mess with the gap, you can do it through the wheelwell (see pic in post 12 again). No need to remove the belt, and you can hold the clutch plate with whatever is handy while removing and tightening the center nut. I used a huge pair of channellocks to hold the last one I did.


Remember, the system has to be inoperative while you do these checks. If the system is working when you check, you probably won't find anything wrong.
What else do you need to know?

bsmiley

Thank you. Explained is simple terms I understand.

bsmiley

The compressor clutch isn't engaging. I tapped on the relay, nothing. Removed relay and checked for voltage. ~14vdc on pin 1. Checked resistance from battery neg to pin 2, OPEN.

Inserted jumper wire, tapped on compressor clutch, nothing. Installed relay and tapped on clutch, nothing.

I found and disconnected the 1P connector from behind the radiator fan shroud. I removed the bolt, ground terminal and holder. I disconnected the field connector. I put a meter between the field connector and 1P connector. No continuity. OPEN. Service manual says to replace the thermal protector.

I don't see how to remove the thermal protector from the top of the compressor. I brushed it off with a wire brush and hit it with a small amount of WD40. Its real tight to get something in there to pry with.

Also it says to put some silicone sealant on the new thermal protector. Is Honda-bond okay or should I hit a store and get some "silicone sealant"? Is the sealant like a glue?

My local dealer is open until 6 pm!

- but wait! Dealer says it $80!!!!!
I'll have to visit pick n pull or bypass the thermal protector. Holy cow, $80.

ezone

Refer to the diagram above again. Terminals 3 and 5 are the ones to be concerned with.

I am only referring to the diagram above. If your relay has numbers on it just ignore them because I cannot see them.

If you put a jumper wire in the holes labeled 1 and 2 in the diagram above, I sure as hell hope you did not have the key turned on.

ezone

It's either the thermal protector or the field coil.
They are wired in series so if either goes bad your meter would show open circuit or whatever the coil resistance may be.

Check out this honkin huge picture of the top of the compressor. You should see how the coil can be separated from the thermal protector.



http://www.autoacforum.com/textthrea...AR_MSGDBTABLE=


Make sense?

bsmiley

Yes, makes sense. Great picture of the thermal protector.

I meant pins 1 & 2 from the relay socket diagram (service manual).



So I used this diagram to check the thermal protector: It read open.



All I can remember is the nice man at the parts counter said he had to order the thermal sensor and its $80.

After EMTs jolted me a couple of times with the paddles I was able to return home.

I guess I'll shop around for a thermal protector next time I'm at pick n pull. But for now, this is what I've done:



AC is working great now. Blows as cold as it did before my thermal protector failed. I sincerely appreciate your help. It was pretty easy to find the open thermal protector circuit following your advice. Not a lot of room to work in there but better than having to pull the compressor!

ezone

Makes more sense now, I kinda have to use pics from the internet because I can't hotlink my factory service info.

38908-PLA-E01
MSRP is 57.50 on the dang thing.
40 at Majestic.


If it blows cold and you have it secure and waterproof, I'd say leave it the way you have it and run it til the car dies.

bsmiley

That's a plan my wallet likes!

Thanks for the help.

I looked it up on my local dealer's website and they are offering it for $57.50 too. But the parts guy told me $80.

Not that I would have bought it for 57 anyway but they are trying to stick it to me...

bravo79

I know this is old but Im having the same issue with my A/C
Condenser fan turns on but clutch wont engage. How do I test the thermal protector? I cant seem to get the connector to open.
Do you know what he did to get it working?

ezone

Start fresh man...what year car do you have?
Might move to a new thread...

Test can be done with ohm meter, check for continuity through the thermal protector unit

ohm check the field coil too

(or voltmeter....or I could even make use of a 12v test light if that's all I have to work with)

bravo79

i have 01 civic. You helped me before with the bent front hubs in this forum. I'm glad to see you replying here. Let me know if you want me to start a new thread. Thanks.

ezone

Which connector can't you open?

bravo79

The 1P connector shown in post #22 in the right side of the picture.
Things I've done so far
Checked the relays and jumped them. Checked the inside 12 P connector. Checked the 2 P pressure switch connector (IT have voltage, And jumped it too)

How do I bypass the thermal protector? So I can test?
The pressure in the system is around 110 PSI while the compressor is not engaging
So I think thats normal.