sammittrue

first off I want to say that I am a regular DIY guy with no tech schooling that is why im coming to you. Ill try to keep it short and sweet with all the necessary info. my neice brought me her 03 civic with p0301 engine code lit up that day. she stated its been really bad gas mileage and adding oil frequintly. tested for spark,good. fuel, good. than compression,4psi #1, 286 psi #2, 290 psi#3 289 psi#4. so pulled the head and sure enough a burnt exhast valve and lots of carbon build up in all cylinders but extreme on #1. Like i stated before, I aint no tech but from what i can tell is unless i address the original problem it will happen again, makes sense. hate to pump all this time and money into it and do it all again just for fun. wouldnt feel rite to sell it knowing that there is an issue, plus i like to figure sh** out and fix it rite anyway. so..... could this be a pcv problem? lots of oil in the intake plenum, espesially cylinder #1. or is that becouse of the burnt valve? fuel injector? I kinda like to test things before i throw money at it so how do you test an injector? blow by? wouldnt that be appearent on the cylinder walls, they look pretty shiny and clean. just the top of the pistons and cylinder head combustion chamber have the build up.

any and all advice greatly appreciated

ezone

Most frequent cause of burned valves would be lack of maintenance, specifically ignoring valve adjustment. Yes they have to be adjusted manually, they don't use hydraulic tappets. Hondas seem to tighten the valves over time and miles, rather than loosen and get noisy.

Compression numbers are too freekin high, that's almost near diesel range. LOL


If it's been using oil, I'd slap a set of rings in it while the head is off. Especially if you want someone to keep driving it.

sammittrue

would the high compression be from all the carbon build on the piston and cylinder head?
ha ha you make it sound so simple. is slapping rings in it really that easy? Ive only done dirt bikes and i generally change the piston with it assuming the cylinder is still good. i plan on doing the clutch as well so might as well pull the motor anyway. if you could point me to where i could get some info on changing the rings that would be great!

ezone

Elevated reading...maybe?

I think your gauge is probably faulty. I expect to see at least 180ish when I check these, and I don't think I've ever seen over 220 PSI on a stock Honda compression test..



Figuratively but yeah, pretty much.

Remove head(s) and oil pan
Remove rods and pistons
Strip off the old rings,
Carefully clean the ring grooves and the pistons,
correctly install a fresh set of rings as per the instructions,
reinstall the pistons into the holes.
Reassemble engine.

No honing.
Engine in the car.
No new bearings unless needed.

This is how we do rings on most of the warranty ring jobs, and I got finished doing a set of rings on a V6 this afternoon with 150,000 or so miles (under a warranty extension).

Sorry, your car isn't covered by anything like that.

If all hone marks (crosshatch) are still visible and no heavy scratches (not deep enough to catch a fingernail in), the cylinder is judged as OK.

Pistons are reused unless damaged or way out of spec. or there are specific instructions stating to replace.

Shop manual? Check the last pages of this thread: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...e-updated.html

HTH

sammittrue

Just read my original post and ha ha I must have been tired or hung over ha ha. my apologies but the correct compression test results
4 psi #1
186 #2
190 #3
189 #4
again my bad and thanks for great input!

sammittrue

also would the valves tightening add apposed to loosening be the cause of the oil consumption? With this compression would you still replace the rings?

ezone

^That looks more like what I'd expect to see on a comp test. Carry on!

ezone

It was probably using a lot of oil long before the valve problem happened.


A compression test cannot evaluate the oil control rings.
The oil rings could be completely missing and you would still get great compression numbers in a test.

Example: Most 2-stroke pistons only have a pair of compression rings, right?
Yes.

Your oil rings will probably be coked up and stuck in their grooves.

HTH

sammittrue

Sweet so rings it is. Next question.
The steelership wants $66.40 a piston. Could you recommend a good place to find oem cheaper? Or perhaps a good quality aftermarket brand? Any recommendations greatly appreciated

ezone

You spelled that wrong.
It's S-T-E-A-L-ership



.....that's like 50% higher than retail.
There are many dealers that sell parts online at wholesale prices. Search a bit and you will find


This one is in R.I.
CLICKY LINK
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...N+-+CRANKSHAFT





HTH

sammittrue

HaHa Exactly! I saw some on e bay fir 27 bucks a set seller claims oe specs and Napa in my area quoted 47 bucks for all 4 pistons brand name is ultrum. Every heard of these?

ezone

Nope. Have YOU?




I work for a dealer, I don't get to hear a lot of what's in the outside world sometimes.

sammittrue

Ok so finally got the rings in the mail. I was skimming thorough my repair manuel and it calls for new connecting rod cap bolts but the stealerships in my area say another week out and they never replace these. So should I reuse or replace is my question?

ezone

I see nothing in my service info stating such.

What does your info give for torque on the rod nuts? I show 24 ft-lb.

mikey1

if your talking about a honda manual, then i would go by what it says

sammittrue

This is a Hanes manuel.... maybe that's the problem ha ha
it calls for 24 ft lbs as well

ezone

I'd reuse them --- per the info I have.

sammittrue

Once again you the man! Thanks ezone

sammittrue

Good call on the rings they are disgusting ha ha. That was sound advice. Now I'm noticing wear on piston 2 and 3 connecting rod bearings, slight but visible. According to my Hanes book they chalk it up to lugging wear. Is replacing the bearings as simple as pop the old ones out and slap the new ones in? Also is that a sign to pull the crankshaft and check those? Where do I draw the line on this Thang

ezone

Some wear might be expected, it does have a bunch of miles on it.

Got pics?

Was it noisy, as in rod knock noise? If no knocking noises, I'd probably reuse them. If they weren't a problem before, then it shouldn't be a huge problem now.

You could plastigauge them to check oil clearances if you are real concerned...

Original bearings were select-fit and IMO a PITA time consuming process to do.

sammittrue

I think these have the most wear. Not sure about the noise it was missing pretty bad but I only listened to it odor for a couple minutes than started checking spark and fuel and found the dead cylinder. I don't recall hearing a knock or anything but I want really listening for it either. ..

ezone

IMO it's up to you. The upper shell of the bearing looks questionable from this angle, but it WAS running on it.


Your miss was on #4, not these. It was running with no complaints (other than the miss) when you took it apart, so it should (will) run again when you put it together.

OTOH you could slide in a set of rod bearings if you want. Price a standard (I assume) size set from your local (quality) parts store or machine shop?
Do the plastigauge for checking oil clearances?


Wanna go for mains too? All the mains that are easy to reach without pulling the crank all the way out? (I've done this)


Did you take the main girdle off, can you see the bottom halves of the main bearings?





If you had not pulled the pistons out to do rings, you'd never know it looked like that....and it probably still would have run a (potentially) long time like that.

sammittrue

Well after some consideration I've decided just to go ahead and replace Conrode bearings along with main and thrust washers. I'll send then crank off to get miced and possibly turned/polished. It's another 200 bucks but hey we've come this far rite might as well. Plus new experience I guesse. I was wondering if you see in your service manuel of it calls for new hardware in the main caps?

ezone

I see no mention of replacement.

sammittrue

This is actually kinda fun. Makes me want to do my bimmer next, 89 750.... second thought maybe not ha ha

sammittrue

One last question (hopefully) I've been looking online for main and conrod clearances spec limits and no luck. Any chance you would have access to that info? much appreciated!

ezone

Main journal 1 and 5, .0007-.0014 in
main journals 234, .0009-.0017 in
rods .0009-.0017

service limit .002 in for all.

sammittrue

Ha ha this must be the pita thing you were talking about. ..
let me ask you this. .. had the crank buffed as they said it didn't need to be ground and they recommended orange colored main bearings wich as I believe are the original size. After plastigage it looks dead on at .002
so that's not going to work is it?

sammittrue

Using the green plastigage btw

ezone

So what do the journals measure at now?

.002 puts you at the max end of the wear limit, so technically it's acceptable....but it may not sound like a sewing machine LOL
Check the crank and block markings to see what the originals were?

IDK...It's not a brand new engine by any means.