Honda_Problems

So i got a Honda Civic 2003 with about 130k on it. It's been running fine but i noticed recently that it would bog down and struggle sometimes to accelerate past 60 intermittently. This would happen very infrequently.

Then all of the sudden the other day it starts to rev real loud and not go past 20-40mph max. Then lose all acceleration before going back to 20-40mph acceleration max. Then after a mile of this the engine light flashes 3 times.

I get out and tow it back to the house. Next day it wont start, cranks and turns over but won't start. Over half a tank of gas in it. Oil is in it. I tow it to the garage. They get a multiple misfire code and replace the spark plugs. Said the new spark plugs are wet and gas is getting to them and that they can't figure out whats going on with it. THat they would just be shooting in the dark replacing parts without knowing if that will fix it. It starts now but still runs like ****.

Im probably going to tow it to another garage like Midas and see if they can figure it out but from reading these forums seems like people are pretty smart on here. Im not that good with this kind of stuff and was hoping someone may be able to help. It's a 3000 dollar car in good condition, should i just give up and get a car that runs or what??

RIPSAW

What color is the transmission fluid? Sounds like maybe it was hung in two gears. If that is the case, car is probably junk. Watch some Youtube on Honda transmission overhaul. Just maybe it does have bad gas. You need a sample off the bottom of the tank.

Honda_Problems

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Honda_Problems

Well i can only hope the issue is gonna be that easy. Car is still at the garage but i will look at some info on the transmission fluid and let you know when i can check the color on it. From what i can tell it could be anything from low compression issues to cadillac coverter to sensors to wires ect. I can tell you that i did a transmission flush last summer. The gas cap has been missing for a while but i plug it up with a rag. Thing is that the car is running but it refuses to accelerate past 40mph then suddenly all power cuts out and it will be going almost 0 then go back to acccelerating to 20-40mph. The engine light flashed too so im thinking it must be a bigger issue then bad gas.

A buddy of mine said a similar thing happened to him and it was the mass airflow intake and he unplugged it plugged it back in after it thawed out and it fixed it, its cold here so maybe. Ive looked around on the forums and have gotten everything from ECU to Cadillac converter to coils ect. Never had a garage come back and tell me they dont know how to fix something before. They just know gas is leaking into the spark plugs and they get multiple misfire codes.

Anyways I will check out some video's on transmission fluid and try to figure out if thats causing the issue. Thanks for the suggestions.

Reverb2005

Did the mechanic pull all the codes? Are they all just misfire codes? Anything else?

Your spark plugs were probably coated in gas from trying to crank it over and over, no surprise there. Could be a compression problem? Do a compression test and see what you get?

When you can't get past 40mph and you are pressing the gas, is the engine revving like mad or can you not get it to rev any higher? Like you are pushing the pedal down but the engine is not responding?

You will HAVE to put some money into troubleshooting if you can't DIY. Find the problem first, then decide whether it's worth fixing.

How long have you been just "putting a rag" on the cap? Moisture WILL eventually displace the gas and get caught in your fuel lines. Then if it gets below freezing, guess what happens?

Honda_Problems

He put new spark plugs in and then the car started again but still runs like **** and then they were wet and messed up again he said. He said the only codes he got were "multiple misfire codes" but doesn't know what the issue is. Only could tell me the timing is all off and maybe the timing belt jumped or skipped and messed up the timing. However he is not certain enough to replace the belt, says it could have nothing to do with that and could be many different things.

I think your right that some money will have to go towards finding the issue first. I'm interested in hearing any experience people have had similar to this and what it ended up being. I think it could be a compression issue too but then again this issue pretty much happened right out of the blue, no warning signs other than one time a while back where it wouldn't accelerate past 60mph for a while. Next step for me is to mess with the air intake sensor and get it to Midas to get someone else to take a look. If they don't have an answer then i have a difficult decision to make.

RIPSAW

Maybe it was your guardian angel looking out for you riding around using a rag for a gas cap. You know they have a name for that?

Honda_Problems

Hey who knows maybe if i buy a gas cap the problem will be solved. I read a thread where this guys car went into limp mode and he got a gas cap and it ran fine after that!! Sounds a little far fetched but

ezone

Your mechanic is broken. Replace mechanic.

If you have a rag in there, your mechanic should have been seeing EVAP codes too.

If you have a rag in there, that should lead to more questions, namely "WTF?" and "Why can't you afford a $10 gas cap?", followed by considering exactly what Mr. Reverb mentioned.


Compression test? Maybe.
Cam timing check? Probably a good idea.
Backpressure test? Sounds good too.
Unless the engine actually runs great at times. Then I'd think about......

Take a fuel sample from the fuel line at the engine. Run about a quart into a glass jar and let it stand. If there is a bunch of water in the gas it should be obvious pretty quick.
If there is only a little water in the tank, it can be a real hair puller trying to figure it out without getting inside the tank.
The fuel rail on the engine can hold quite a bit of water before it actually is full enough to force the water to exit through the fuel injectors.

Honda_Problems

Once it gets to 40 mph (if it does) it wont rev up any higher. I don't like how it sounds so i don't really push the pedal ALL THE WAY down but came close a few times and it just will not accelerate. Sometimes it seemed like it was bogged down or flooded but it also seemed a lot like limp mode. At first i thought it was the transmission.

After hitting 40 mph it will stay there for a bit then start slowing down to around 20 mph without me letting off the gas at all. Then after a while of going 20 it will start to accelerate again and get back to 40 mph. This went on for a few miles while i tried to find a safe place to pull over, then once the engine light started flashing i stopped the car immediately. It was cold so i started it back up to idle so i could get some heat while i waited for the tow truck. It sputtered and died several times as if it was out of gas but eventually would idle. The next day it wouldn't start at all. Once the mechanic switched out the spark plugs it started again but still the same issue. He said the timing is all off with the engine. I don't want to drive it anymore because i'm worried about damage to the engine.

The only ever time it has done ANYTHING like this before was about a month ago. I was driving up a very steep mountain for about an hour and there were a few times where it would not accelerate past 60mph. It was an isolated issue.

Ok so this is more serious then i thought. I'm an idiot for not thinking it mattered. I've had the rag in there for months, didn't think anything could get in there with the rag plugging up the hole. Never had a problem in warmer climates but it's usually below freezing where i am now. I've been here for a month.

Honda_Problems

Great advice, I'm making a list with all the suggestions now. Tomorrow i will take it to another garage with the list, get a gas cap, clean the MAP sensor and go from there. Thanks for the help guys i really want to get this car back on the road. I've read a lot of horror stories of people with this kind of problem dumping 3 to 4 grand into their cars replacing various sensors and parts just to try to find the issue and get their cars back on the road and reliable again. I just can't afford to do that right now.

ezone

Accurate diagnosis is not always easy or cheap, and not all who work on cars are capable of it. Some can only go so far. Some only seem to fix cars by accident.


Accurate diagnosis by the right person (extremely competent professional) can be far cheaper than firing the parts cannon.


Handy pic of a parts cannon:





Most parts cannon type people could fire that sucker all day and never fix a problem like water in the gas tank. Or wiring problems.



I don't really KNOW what the problem is here, but I bet I could figure it out if it were in my bay at work.

LOL WUT?

Honda_Problems

Its a long shot but i got a buddy who says he had a similar issue and it ended up being the MAP/MAF sensor. He unplugged it cleaned it and problem solved.

The thing that makes this kind of issue so hard is the codes. In my case all that's coming up is misfire codes and the question is what is causing the misfires. You would think if it was a sensor that code would come up too.

ezone

I believe that, I bet your buddy had a Ford based product or Ford based fuel injection.

MAP is a very different sensor from a MAF.
Your car does not have MAF.



I know all too well how the computers can be fooled or not detect apparent problems, so not much surprises me anymore.

In your case it is detecting a problem, that is misfire. Now someone has to figure out why.

If the problem is caused by water in the fuel, then it has nothing to do with any sensors.

The computers do not just hand you an answer. The scanner is only a tool.

A scalpel in the hands of a skilled surgeon is a life saver. In the hands of anyone else it is just a knife.


Figure out the correct answers to your running problem, then you can try to answer your own questions as to 'why did it act this way?'.

mikey1

i agree.....

replacing spark plugs? seriously?

why not just test if the current ones are working?

spark plugs are rarely, if ever a problem these days, i dont care how old they are, most will keep on ticking forever,

did they even check the cam timing? that would be where i would start, but then again im just a backyard mechanic know it all jacka$$

Honda_Problems

Well the car is now at Midas -- we'll see what they can do.

ezone

No offense, but this is not the way to get problems solved.

Maybe chain stores in your area hire surgeon level talent, but around my area they hire flunkies that can barely turn a wrench the right direction on the first try.

mikey1

midas only do minor work like brakes, shocks, exhaust, etc

i dont even think they are licensed mechanics,

they will be worse then where you had it last,

take it to the dealer

ezone

In the US, we don't have a universal licensing program like you do up there in Canuckistan. I think the state of Michigan requires certification, but I don't know of any other states that require anything besides smog certification if one is in that sort of area.

Most places here, dang near anyone with a shoebox full of tools can hang a shingle and call themselves a shop.


ASE certification is voluntary for most, and the expense is your own (unless you happen to work in a fantastic shop).

Honda_Problems

I thought heavily about that but the closest dealer is a 30 mile tow away and they are EXTREMELY expensive so id have to get a list of problems from them and then tow it back local to have the work done.

Starting to wish i'd chose that though. They looked at it for 2 hours today and still can't find the issue. Still no helpful codes. They say they are testing everything and eliminating problems one by one. It will really suck if they look at it for 6 hours then charge me the $70 per hour and say they "think" they know the issue. I have til monday morning at this point to change my mind but at this point between the first place and this place im already out 200 with no repairs done yet and still no idea what's going on. When i picked it up at the first place it was at least running. Since i parked it at Midas they haven't even been able to get it to start.

mikey1

geez, that could get expensive,

especially if they start with the headlights, brakes, or air filter

Stock 99

In all fairness...that a dealer by dealer decision...no different than picking a trustworth shop/mechanic.

I took my car to my local dealer a couple years ago for an alignment. After 20 minutes one of the shop guys came out and wanted to charge me $600+ dollars to replace my upper ball joints.

Recently I've picked the head dudes head about some things on my car and what they would do to replace say a radiator. They go buy aftermarket parts literally 2 blocks over from a parts store to do repairs to 6th gen cars.

I have a trustworthy idependant guy that I would actually take my car to if I needed work done. He incidently, was a Honda mechanic for 10 years before he started his own shop.

ezone

OP: Where are you located?

Honda_Problems

See that's the issue. If i was still in Orlando id probably be good but i've been up visiting family in a small town so options are limited. I found another shop that's AAA certified and says their techs are all licensed.

If you guys are really feel strongly that Midas won't be able to come through then i guess i could bite the bullet and pull it out of there monday morning and tow it over to this place. I wouldn't want to do it unless it's critical because that's gonna be pretty uncomfortable. Then again id rather have to deal with an awkward situation then to have them looking at it for 6 hours and then start guessing and end up 2 grand into it with a car that still wont run.

Right now im already $200 into it and i was hoping to fix whatever this issue was PLUS do the timing belt while im at it (130k) and get out of this under 2 grand but that's not looking very good right now.

ezone

That doesn't answer my question.

Honda_Problems

I'm up in New England. Midas called and said that the timing belt was skipping and jumping. I'm having them replace the belt and the pump and doing a radiator flush. That should be the primary issue they said. Said they looked at it for 4 hours and that's all they can find as a problem. I've got my fingers crossed.

mikey1

if this REALLY IS your issue, then there is a very good chance your valves have been bent and damaged, if thats the case simply replacing the belt will do no good,

you are most likely looking at removing the cylinder head, replacing any damaged valves, and re-installing the head, along with a new head gasket and timing belt,

this is not a job that i would trust Midas to successfully accomplish,

from my previous post #15......

"did they even check the cam timing? that would be where i would start"

Honda_Problems

They told me they have a checklist and so im assuming they would have looked into that before taking apart the whole car to get to the belt not once but twice. They also found the motor mount 75 percent worn and are doing that and i asked them to report all issues. So for them to come back now after the fact after they have looked at all aspects of the car for 4 hours and to then be like "oops actually it looks like your engine is all messed up" would be extremely unethical and totally intolerable and they would get no money from me and i'd report them. Don't think corporate would like that.

RIPSAW

Timing belts don't jump on a Civic and they run. The belt is not spring loaded. It is spring tensioned and then tensioner is bolt locked. If belt breaks , and then of course jumps, its done and on older belt Hondas took out 4 valves. Least from 1985 thru 1995. Think that is why Honda went to chain. They probably go tired of all the pocket rocket people towing them in in pieces. Years ago, most people drove them like the old V-8 and not redlining them at ever light as they do today. Ezone, what happens to the chain ones like my 2006 Civic and at what high milage?

Honda_Problems

Well you guys know more than me, including them. This isn't my first Rodeo i've been through a few situations where a timing belt breaks and damages the engine and every time i'm told of the complete situation. Everyone i know is always told if the engine was damaged by timing belt issues as well. So what i'm saying is that if they came back after all this and were like "whoops" you also need to rebuild your engine then that's unethical. I would just tell them they can **** themselves at that point. So i just don't think they would try something like that. We will see how it all pans out. This is a Civic 2003 with a Vtec engine.