Experiment 626

I have a 2003 Civic EX Coupe with an automatic; just crossed 170K miles. I'm second owner and have had the car about eight years.

About three weeks ago, I had an incident where the car died just after I started it up. Then it wouldn't start. It was very low in gas at the time and I thought it was a "perfect storm" of a weak battery and low fuel. After a jump and keeping the two vehicles connected for a few minutes, I was able to refuel and go on my way, with no problems until Tuesday before last.

As I was driving on that Tuesday morning, suddenly the stereo and AC fan quit. Momentarily, I got warning lights for the brakes and SRS. This seemed to more or less match an experience with another car I had many years ago (I won't name the car because, as with Lord Voldemort, that might give it power %u2014 or at least cause nightmares) when the alternator died, so that's what I figured was causing the problem with my Civic. I called my wife and decided to try to make it to the nearest AutoZone. I figured that if I had to stop, the car might die, and sure enough, I had to come to a near-stop about 200 yards from the AutoZone. My wife eventually joined me and gave me a jump, and I was able to drive the rest the rest of the way. My wife has forgotten more about cars than I will ever know, so I assisted her in removing the alternator. She tested it and the battery and found both appeared to be okay. With no other ideas, we had the vehicle towed to the nearest Honda dealer. They kept it four days and repaired some other problems I knew I had, and apparently believed it had taken care of the electrical problem as well.

I picked up the car that Saturday and drove it home and then back to work that Monday without any problems. I went to lunch and then back to work, and then later I started home without any trouble. I stopped on the way; when I got back into the car, it started but I noted the battery seemed weak. Before I made it out of the parking lot, I noticed the green key warning light was flashing (well beyond the few seconds it normally lights when the car is started). Then the stereo and AC quit again, and I got the other warning lights I got previously. I made it a few miles before it quit again. I wasn't even able to get the car in Neutral to push it out of the street. I had it towed back to the dealership, where it has been since then. They've tried driving the car almost daily, attempting to get the problem to repeat itself. The service rep says that whatever the problem is, it is not something common. The battery and alternator test as good for them as well.

I see that others have experienced similar problems and written about them here, but the threads died out before definitive information was revealed. The only place I can think of to take the car than the dealer would be an auto-electric service facility.

Ideas?

SSB

drhawkinz

I would say it's an alternator issue but it seems that has been ruled out.

I had an old ranger that had a starter that was pulling too many amps and would drain the battery before the truck would start. Maybe have them see if they can check that while they have it?

Experiment 626

No other ideas, anyone? Dealership has had the car for two weeks-plus, and at this point, they are just (allegedly) driving it around some every day, trying to get the problem to repeat with diagnostic equipment connected. They say that unless that happens, they have no idea of the cause. But we can't keep doing this (being down to one car) forever; I'm having to use vacation time every day to cover the hour or so I miss every morning. Is there any sort of place that would be more likely to find the problem?

SSB

mikey1

i dont mean to sound rude when i say this but......

if the dealership can not solve the problem when they have the car in their possession, what makes you think somebody on here will be able to without even seeing the vehicle?

things i would do......

- bench test the alternator out of the vehicle, is it good?
- test battery voltage with nothing else connected to it, what does it read?
- test battery voltage with alternator installed and the engine idling with all accessories off, whats the reading?

and last but not least, a very simple thing.....disconnect the battery, clean the battery posts and the cable connectors with a mixture of baking soda and water, use a wire brush if nessessary, dry everything before reconnecting,

check the battery ground connection to the frame, check the ground strap from the frame to the engine, make sure all these ground points are tight and clean,

poor or corroded electrical connections can cause all sorts of problems, and its something most people tend to overlook

electric130

iTrader: (44)

the brake and SRS lights come on because the battery voltage isn't high enough to run the systems. the car is letting you know those systems are offline. I had the same thing in my current 2013 truck. it was intermittent and the dealership wouldn't fix it unless the lights were on. I finally got to the dealership and sure enough, the alternator was bad.

I would change your alternator.

Experiment 626

Well, I wouldn't call your question rude -- but isn't the answer self-evident? I posted here in hopes that someone else might have experienced the same problem with the same symptoms and been able to discover the answer. It's true the dealership sees plenty of Civics, but it doesn't mean they've seen everything. Here at a forum specific to Honda Civics in particular, I figured it was worth a shot, and (if the membership here is like every other forum I've experienced) not every member logs on every day. In addition, I had received a reply, and had I not posted further, someone with insight might have read the thread and presumed the first answer gave me a solution (or that the problem had otherwise been solved), and therefore that person might not offer possible solutions that would be of benefit. In addition, the dealership has had the car now two weeks solid (just counting the second time I brought it in) without success, and the only thing I currently owe them is the cost of the tow. Until they find the problem and fix it, they make no more money off me. If you were the service manager and anything typical as a cause had already been ruled out, would you tell a mechanic (who could be working on another vehicle with a known problem, for which everyone involved could be paid) to focus on my car instead (for more than a short while each day, at best)? I know I would have a hard time doing that, so I can't say I would entirely blame them if they put less than full effort into it at this point. Indeed, one thing with which I am pleased is that they have not "fixed at" the problem just to sell me parts and hope the problem would be solved.
My wife and completed your first two suggestions ourselves. The alternator outside the car tested good. The battery did as well, though I don't recall the figure at this point. Supposedly the dealer also did those things with the same result, and they said they did the third as well, and "everything was fine." Your fourth suggestion is a good idea -- I believe the dealership said they had cleaned the connections, but whether they examined the ground strap and the grounding points is another question -- one which I will ask them.

Thanks -- at least I now have another question to ask of them.

SSB

Experiment 626

That's what I suspected.
Hmmm ... I always drive with my headlights on, day or night. The mechanic has been driving the car during the day and may not have had the headlights running. So that's a good suggestion -- although I don't feel comfortable buying a new alternator unless I know I need one.

Thanks for your help!

SSB

usajags84

First thing I would change is the dealership....

Then I would change the alternator, although it's not acting up at the times the "dealer" is testing it doesn't mean there is not a dead spot or problem with the voltage regular!
I would also clean the terminals spotless, and apply some dielectric grease before reconnecting. Check your grounds and your power box positive connection for good connection and no corrosion also check the wires on the alternator
Is it a honda alternator or after market?
What's the voltage coming off the alternator when it's running ?

Being down one car sucks!

Experiment 626

I'd have to go well out of my way to do that ... next nearest dealership is in Thomasville, Georgia, which is a good two-hour round trip.
As far as I know, it is the original alternator. I bought the car when it was about three years old and have had it since that time, and I've never had any charging system problems until now.

Last week we decided to just go get the car for now, figuring that having to jump the car every few days would be less onerous than being down to one car all the time. After having done so, I drove it without incident for a couple of days. Thursday morning, however, was one of those days when I should have called in sick or crazy or something. About three miles from the house, I saw that I was being paced (I had just turned off one road onto another) by a whitetail doe on the shoulder to my left. I just had time to recognize the source of motion when she decided it was super important for her to cross the road immediately. I wasn't going very fast and already had my foot on the brake pedal, but I couldn't avoid her. Hit her with the front driver's side; I saw her fly up and toward the right, and I was sure she was going to hit the windshield, but she didn't. Saw her flash above me because I had opened the moonroof shade, and saw her come down -- bottom-side up -- near my right rear quarter. The car was still running, so I drove it another half-mile or so until I reached a place I could stop and assess the damage. The driver's side headlight housing was pretty well shattered (though the lights are currently still working), paint knocked off the bumper below that, and the hood was crunched. The latter will still open, but not very comfortably.

Deer are about as bright as squirrels, but much more dangerous.

So, after a couple minutes to let the adrenaline flow get back to normal, I continued my drive to work. And about five miles down the road from that, the electronics went belly-up again. This time, I got a jump and decided to drive in the rest of the way, which worked -- and I decided to try to leaving the headlights off whenever possible. I did so the rest of the week, and the car ran fine. Friday evening I had to work late, so I was forced to use the headlights -- and the car died again, about four miles from work. Got a jump, and was able to drive home without further incident (with the headlights on, of course), and back in this morning as well. So maybe there is something to a connection between this problem and the headlights.

However, I'm 99 percent decided to get a newer car. I'd have a hard time justifying putting more money into this one to fix the electrical problem and the body damage "Doh, the Deer, the Female Deer" did to it. A newer Civic is high on my list to consider, as is the Mazda 3. I'll have to put the Corolla in the mix as well; though I find them uninspiring, they are reliable. I'll pay cash, so my entire bill must be no higher than $15,000. I might go another $200 or so if I must, but no more than that. Seems that I'm looking at 2010-2012 models, depending on trim level and mileage. Is there a board here to discuss the process of evaluating a purchase like this? Will I get eggs thrown at me for considering a non-Civic and non-Honda? I'm doing that partly because the number of Civics within 250 miles in my price range that meet my needs and my wants seems rather low -- I have a thing for white cars, from which I have deviated only once in my life, and I'll get another white one if at all possible.

SSB