Bonniemarie

How many serpentine belts do civics have? Just paid a garage $2500 to swap my motor out and they charged me for two serpentine belts. They didn't cost much, but I'd still like to know if I even need two.

mikey1

yes you do have two

kinakoes2

You have two standard accessory belts on the D17, an older Honda engine design. Modern Honda designs all have serp belts these days IIRC.

The difference between a serp belt path, and a regular one, is one belt runs ALL the accessories with serp. They also have one space on the crank pulley for a belt, whereas the D17's regular belts have two.

Not all accessory belts are serp belts... but nowadays it's much rarer to see a car engine with two belts, as they both make the engine wider and have more mass than a serp setup (decreases mpg).

mikey1

not really.....

the belts are still turning the same amount of accessories,

doesn't really matter if its one belt or two (as far as MPG goes)

kinakoes2

Well think of it this way, mikey...

You have a crank pulley with two belts that attach to it.

Each belt slot on the steel pulley, needs its own rim on either side to center the belt and not let it run off the pulley, or into the other run.

This means a two-belt crank pulley, needs three rims to locate its two belts.

A serp belt, though wider, needs only two.

I'm willing to bet the addition of that extra rim, plus the additional length of the bolt securing it to the crank end, plus the additional mass of a rim (more weight further from center of rotation, takes more energy to accelerate), is more than you realize.

That's not even counting the additional friction (add the ribs on both D17 belts. Do they add to more than six? Six ribs is a standard serp belt; some use five).

Having come from wrenching on racebikes with 80 hp, that respond to slightly lighter (0.75 kg) tires by using ~2 gallons less fuel over a 6-hr endurance race... I think I'm a bit more qualified to know what fuel economy gains can be had from reducing rotating mass.

mikey1

naw, sorry i still don't agree.....you are still turning the same amount of accessories, one or two belts doesn't matter,

and just an FYI i have a 100+ RWHP GSXR, and have worked on many other drag bikes

kinakoes2

Saying it twice doesn't make it more correct.


Really? So does every other squid on the planet with a credit card and an ego. Does 'worked on' include more than handing the actual tech their tools and stacking slicks?

BTW, it's 'GSX-R' -- and a 600 off the showroom floor makes 104+ bone stock nowadays. Not that half their owners can actually make them go around corners without crashing their brains out.

C'mon dude... reasons. Seriously think every manufacturer out there has moved to serpentine belts... because they wanna tick you off? If your claim was true there'd be less, not more adoption of serps out there. The major engineering advantage to them... is more performance, for less fuel and emissions, and lower cost. Why that is, is they and the hardware they ride on, has less mass. Always. If they can get a cheaper pulley and a narrower engine in the deal, even better.

mikey1

it is to save room in the engine compartment, nothing to do with MPG

you have your opinion and i have mine, you are not going to change my opinion, and im not going to change yours, so there isnt any point in continuing this conversation






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kinakoes2

Agree. You have a right to your opinion, as uneducated as it is. No further discussion.

mikey1

while we are on the topic of being uneducated, lets visit a previous thread...

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...limp-mode.html

i believe you were the one trying to argue that there was a design flaw with these engines because the alternators are grounded with the mounting bolts?

your belief was, if people did not tighten the bolts properly, that is a design flaw, not the problem of the person installing the alternator,

now that is uneducated,

maybe next time i put my wheels back on, i will leave the lug nuts loose, then when my wheels fly off while driving i can sue honda.....afterall it was a design flaw, not my fault for not tightening the bolts properly

im sorry but i just do not understand your logic.....or i should say lack of it






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WEGOMITE

Bonnie...there is 1 serpentine belt... ac belt...and might be 1 power steering.