mrohitredd

Hello All,
I am sure this problem might have been addressed quite a few times as part of different threads already. But I am confused of where to start troubleshooting it.

I had this misfire issue for quite a while... Since January (almost 6-7months). But the check engine light never stayed constant. Today in the morning, for the first time the check engine light stayed there & I got the codes pulled. "P0301 Cylinder 1 misfire detected" is the one I got. I searched all over & there seems to be a lot of things to be done - Trial & Error.

Can someone please tell me the steps to deal with this...
Should I first try changing the Spark Plugs ?
I own this car (2002 4Dr LX) for just over 8 months & have no idea what was done before that...

kinakoes2

Probably needs a plug change. 7th gen is very sensitive to proper plugs...

If anyone can suggest a less-expensive plug that works, post it up. Otherwise IME this OEM (pricey) plug solved *all* my prior misfire issues... I've not have good luck with the OEM-spec'd NGKs, the Densos worked beautifully.

Denso pt#: PKJ20CR-M11

Honda pt#: 12290-PGE-A01

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

NGK and Denso are good for 7th gen and can be had fairly cheap . Don't buy Bosch, they do not like this car at all.

mrohitredd

Thanks kinakoes2 & BlueEM2 .
Changed the spark plugs & it seems to be working...

Used "Denso PK20TT Platinum TT Spark Plug"

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

NP glad it was an easy fix!

mrohitredd

all right... new problem
the check engine light blinks at low RPMs... and the engine vibrate (a jerk like feel - a misfire like feel) at the same...

What can i do to avoid this ?

also, (i know its very bad) when i was changing the spark plugs.. i found Oil all around the plugs

How can i clean it completely & get rid of this mis fire like issue..

ezone

P0301 again?
Got compression?

Got oil soaked coil boots and carbon tracks burned on the outside of the porcelain??


If the CEL is flashing, it's a real misfire. Not misfire-like.

mrohitredd

I cudn't get the codes checked, coz the Check Engine Light isn't constant...
It only flashes when the engine is running at low RPMs...

I saw oil all around the plugs... (literally, plugs were getting soaked in oil)...
All i did was to clean the oil & put new plugs...

Matt_75

Poor car. Previous owner probably didn't service it correctly. It probably needs new rings at a minimum.

I have a 2002 civic ex. it has a little over a 100k on it and it's not burning any oil that I can see. I bought it brand new with 33 miles on it and have given a ton of love ever since I bought it. ezone has helped me extensively with it.

Edit: Disregard my ring quote above. I misunderstood what you were saying. It could be as easy as replace the spark tube seals on the valve cover.

mrohitredd

Sorry... Can u please be a little more descriptive of what I should be doing ?
Thanks a ton for the time and replies...

mrohitredd

FYI... I recently changed the gasket too...

can it be a faulty Gasket or worn rings (not sure, what exactly does people mean by rings though) ?

kinakoes2

Yes -- spark plug tube gasket. When you buy a Honda OEM valve cover gasket swap kit, it comes with these round, press-in plug tube gaskets.

If the valve cover was off recently, it could be that this round tube gasket's seal is simply folded over. It HAS to sit perfectly on the tube or it'll let oil flung from the camshaft drip down the inside of the tube and fill your plug well. Very common esp for home techs to miss this.

If it hasn't been disturbed in a long time, then it may simply be rocky and leaking. It'll need to be replaced then. Since the valve cover has to be off anyway and the whole kit is due for a swap (my cover was leaking badly when I bought the car @~144K), may as well swap everything. Be aware, though -- swapping the plug tube gaskets can be difficult without some knowhow and tools for seal install (it's very similar to a driveshaft seal).

ezone

A couple months ago, I saw TWO different Odyssey vans (05-10 body, 3.5L)with valve covers broken around several of the plug tube holes, someone really butchered them trying to replace the seals (or something).

mrohitredd

You think putting http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/f...6-r/20688545-P & cleaning the spark plugs for the oil, helps ?

Sorry again... I might be asking really stupid questions... but i'm a literal nerd with these... trying to save some bucks using my interest & luv towards Automobile

Matt_75

Disregard my ring quote above. I misunderstood what you were saying. It could be as easy as replacing the spark plug tube seals on the valve cover.

kinakoes2

Maybe their auto trans had stranded the fam unit in the JITB drive-thru for the last time? Is it the front head's every case, with a tire-iron-shaped hole?

In all seriousness though... was waiting for you to weigh in on this issue, ezone -- when I did mine, it seemed *waaaay* too much force to just tap in. The cover is made of quite brittle (sintered maybe?) aluminum powder.

Remember my issue with the weird riser of cover material that made the old valve cover gasket fail at one spot? While filing that down... I'd found it was faster to just take a blade screwdriver to knock down the riser, since it was so crumbly (maybe sintered in production?) that I could literally scrape it away. Not the cast aluminum covers of the older Honda motors for sure.

So meatsacking the new tube seal in with a hammer and a socket, on a towel & cinder block in your concrete driveway, will result in tears and aerosolized dollars. Ended up using some stacked cardboard box material to prop it on (right under the plug hole I was installing for)... using a bit of my weight atop a socket and working them in (NOT tapping), with the seal lubed with motor oil around the outer edge. Oh, BE SURE TO INSTALL THE TUBE SEAL WITH THE SEAL LIP FACING *INWARD*. Otherwise it'll leak for sure as positive crankcase pressure will push it open. This is also why rushed installs leak, as the sharp tube tip tends to catch on the seal lip and fold it over.

Also, be very careful levering the old seals out, for the same reason -- take. your. time. Not sure how the FSM says to install, but it's either a screw type installer (think C-clamp), or quite a bit of care and perhaps a special tool to support the cover? I found with some common sense it was straightforward, if a bit hairy at moments for a first-time install.

ezone

5-10s don't have the trans problems the earlier ones did....at least not with the same regularity, at any rate.


I thought they require about as much force as a front crank seal.
Actually, IDK how the ham-fisted manage to break the valve covers, I never really had trouble.
I find a suitable sized ring/tube to back up where I'm-a-gonna-beat-the-snot-out-of-it, another suitable ring that fits the seal (to push it with), set the valve cover on first said special tool, and install the seal in the hole with some gentle light tapping of a 20oz swing press.



Pic of a tube seal oil leak problem:


Give this post and thread a read, it has pic of the tube seal (above) that somehow did not get stretched around the plug tube

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/36-mechanical-problems-vehicle-issues-fix-forum/354349-oil-leaks-another-issue.html#post4634397





.



.

kinakoes2

Phew. You'd think with the sites devoted to Odyssey trans failure rage... that it was just as bad; that's a relief as my friend's church just bought a loaded '14 (with the vacuum cleaner in the corner). Think they upped the Oddy spec to Ridgeline and that's when a lot of the outright failures on high-mile ones went away.


Finding that ring was where I was scratching my head... just piled up some cardboard in a small stack behind the hole and pushed in the new seal with a larger socket, which worked fine but it was a wrestle. After seeing how crumbly that riser was I wasn't taking any chances. Getting them out was pretty dicey as well with the usual seal pullers. Just had to go slow and not rush it.

ezone

That's the 'touring elite' van with the double wide bratvision and the sucking machine in the corner, plus a lot of other features.....

Really need all that to do His work and spread His word?

Hmmm. Plain Jane van $29k. Touring elite van almost $45k.






Do you realize just how BIG the crack pipe in that van is?
(God needs a crack pipe?)


But who am I to judge?


/ticket for one, window seat in the smoking section, please.

kinakoes2

Something tells me they didn't pay anywhere near $45K... esp as the '15s are almost here... and any other tax deductions they'd get as a religious org. Plus, it's the main Buddhist temple on the island... so they get a *lot* of donations from a *lot* of just-plain-rich, to Oprah/Monaco-rich people, and often beyond -- when you give cash in the stacks they do to the church, you want to be driven around to functions in something that's comfy, for your continued patronage. Gotta spend it to not get taxed on it!

It's shwanky (drove it around while volunteering there this summer)... doesn't handle as much like a big Accord as the last gen Oddy, but still suuper-easy to drive in the city. Two auto sliding doors are a lot more handy than I expected, as is a power liftgate.

OP: let us know what you find! Curious to know how frequent the 'folded-over tube seal lip' is with the D17.

ezone

We already have a small pile of those vans on the lot.


Sorry, I got hung up on the crack pipe theory.

kinakoes2

That's cool. Then there's where I live... and it's two, out of 100 cars that get shipped to the state. We just got bought out last year by a massive mainland dealer couple of years ago, so maybe that'll change someday. Not by my drive-by observations, though.


As long as by 'hung up', you don't actually think it's a theory.

Who cares... not my money -- and fortunately, not my church, either. I do however, help out my childhood friend whose family runs the cultural festivals overseen by the church. Sometimes, they offer me crack in rocks shaped like twenty minute tours in an elite, self-sucking minivan. I didn't inhale...

mrohitredd

the CEL is on again... I got the codes checked & its the same "P0301 - Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected ". I was even told, that most ppl who has such misfire issue changed their ignition coils to resolve the same...

I was planning to check the Valve Gasket , clean the oil around the spark plugs & if that doesn't help, change the Ignition Coils...

Any suggestions ?

kinakoes2

^Hmmm, the quickest way to figure out if it's a coil (once you've fixed the oil leak) is to swap the #1 coil with any of the others. If the code moves to that cylinder, there's your problem.

If the problem was an open in wiring or connectors *to* the #1 coil, and the code stays on #1 after the swap, then you can rule out the coil.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Was the oil problem there before you changed the spark plugs?

mrohitredd

I changed the valve gasket recently, when I saw oil leaks...
And when I pulled the old spark plugs out, I saw oil all over in those holes...

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

It's exactly what everyone is stating above. The gaskets that seal the spark plug tubes in are shot. Is it all 4 cylinders? This is a pretty easy replacement and it should have been done when your valve cover gasket was replaced. However you will either have to clean the boots very well or replace them if they are caked in oil. It *Might* be what is causing the misfire.

mrohitredd

Help needed guys....


1. Tried to clean the oil around spark plugs (which were replaced about 2 weeks ago), found oil only in the one of the spark plugs (3rd Spark Plug).
2. Swapped the ignition coils...

After all these (I cleaned the oil & might have left a little)... I still get the misfire code for the same - Cylinder 1.
Planning to change all the spark plugs...

Probably my last resort...
Any thing I can do ?

ezone

Post the freeze frame data

Do a compression test

mrohitredd

Sorry, freeze data ?