E019110

Hi folks I'm new to the forum and to these Hondas My 02 EX has 170k on it and it has a few issues I could use some help with. I just got it and I'm trying to get it road worthy for my son. When I picked it up it was throwing so many codes that would make you tow it to the scrap yard. I have worked thru all of them at this point. The biggest job was pulling the intake and cleaning the rock hard deposits from the EGR passages. At this point I am code free the issue I still have is that during acceleration it surges or lags however you want to think about it. It's a auto trans so when you put your foot down to get up to speed it accels fine then levels out then after about a second starts to accel at the previous rate. I have changed the plugs and have fuel filter parts on order. Am I on the right track? Any suggestions on how to correct this condition? Thanks for you help

Dave

E019110

Ok I tested the TPS and found a dead spot, will replace the trottle bod and see if that fixes the issue

ezone

I guess you found something already.
Yes the TPS can cause all that, and without setting a code.

E019110

Thanks for the reply. I was hoping someone would post that. I'll let you know when I get the new throttle body.

ezone

The computer has to see a voltage that is outside of the normal TPS ranges of operational voltages, for a minimum specific period of time, before it sets a code.

The sensor can "glitch" without going outside the normal operating voltage ranges.


If the TPS has a glitch or a dead spot in the variable resistor, the engine would usually falter with repeatable regularity whenever your throttle foot crosses that dead spot area.


Of course, as usual, that's probably not the only possible cause of your complaint. But a good one nonetheless.

E019110

Well I changed out the throttle body with a new old one. I did run the test and there was no dead spot. Did the idle learn thing but forgot to hook up the temp sensor so it threw a code. No surprise. Cleared that and test drove it. When below normal operating temp the accel seems ok. On hot days and at temp it still surges. I did test for vacuum leaks with the propane and did not find anything. New fuel filter arrived so I'll give that a change and see if it has an affect. Possible air temp sensor issue? How long in drive time does it take for the computer to learn everything it needs?

ezone

You probably need to do the idle relearn after fixing the sensor and clearing the CEL and memory.



Reading live data on a scanner, you would be able to verify the accuracy of that sensor, and others.
Got scanner? Got Scangauge? Got a scanner app?

Drive time is debatable, fuel trims are learned as you drive through various conditions.

The only thing you are supposed to manually 'learn' is the idle relearn.





Surge..Hmmm.......Buck? Stumble? Hiccup? Is it frequent, like seconds apart?

Unplug the EGR valve and drive it, see if that affects anything. Yes the CEL will come on because it's unplugged, I just want to know if that has any effect on the complaint.

That's all I got right now. HTH

E019110

Thanks Yesterday was replace the fuel filter and strainer. It would not start when I first finished putting it back together. I removed the line from the pump outlet and jumped 12v to the pump connector. Got fuel from the outlet. Hooked everything back up and drove it for 10 miles. Shut it down and walked away for 10 min. Went to start it up and crank but no light off. Checked for voltage at the tank connector and had nothing. WTF??? Disconnected the positive lead from the battery and walked to the frig for a beer and decided the hell with it till morning. Connected the battery this am and turned the key she fired right up. Test drive was normal. Only thing I can think of is the relay was overheated from me turning the key off and on trying to get pressure. Do you think I need to change the relay? In addition I changed the trans fluid just cause I had no idea how long it had been in there. Engine makes a little better power and trans does shift better so progress. When cold no surge at all. At temp at about 1/2 throttle from a dead stop it will run thru the gears hesitating for about a second every 300 rpm or so. So if I disconnect the EGR valve and drive it that would keep the passages closed correct? Are you thinking vacuum leak at the manifold? And thanks for the help. This issue make my head hurt.

ezone

If you consistently find this when it won't start, then yeah it would be a prime suspect.



Some of the rest of the description made me think of fuel pressure bleed down until I got to this line.

That relay is ALWAYS on the entire time the engine is running, so the overheat theory is bunk.

Bad relay contact points is more likely. Pitted, oxidized, don't make good clean contact every single time. Intermittent. Voltmeter or test light could prove loss of power through contacts whenever the component (fuel pump) doesn't run.


Open up the glovebox wide like you are changing the cabin filters, find the 2 blue relays. Those should be main relays 1 and 2 (check your wiring diagram). The PCM has to power up before the pump can get turned on, so I'd change both if I found one bad.

Right.
No. I was thinking maybe the valve opens too fast / too wide / too often. I have seen the EGR valve itself cause surging and bucking because of this, unplugging is just a quick way to eliminate it for test purposes.

E019110

So I warmed it up and then pulled over to disconnect the EGR valve. Drove it under the same conditions and the surge/hesitation is the same. No real difference. Stopped and plugged it back in no difference. Was surprised that it did not trip a code when I disconnected it and drove it for a mile or 2. Does that sound right or was it not long enough for it to see the fault?

ezone

Hey, it was just a thought and a quick test.
Not the issue, so I guess move on to other checking if you want.


It probably set a "pending" or temporary code. Would probably turn on the light during the next key/drive cycle if this is a 2-trip code.

E019110

Well I have not figured the surge out yet but after putting it in daily use for the last 2 weeks I have a bigger issue. It burns oil. Like a lot and has developed a knock. Just ordered a JDM D17A. Wish me luck with the swap.

ezone

Ooh, good luck!

E019110

Ok got a JDM from some guys in Texas. It has 68k on it. Research shows it's from a Stream. Pulled the old lump and had to swap over the Vetec valve, oil pan, wireing harness and some minor bits. I did change the timing belt, water pump and the idler While I had the valve cover off I did check the valves. Intakes were ok but the exhaust were a little loose so they got reset. I'm ready to put the engine back in the car. What I was wondering is as the engine is dry inside should I motor it over with the plugs out to get the oil pressure up before I try and light it off? What's the best way to do that without throwing the PMC into fits? Thanks
Dave

ezone

I'd just leave the 4 plugs out and 4 coils disconnected. Spin it til the oil light goes out, then reassemble plugs and coils.

E019110

Ok engine swap went well. Had to change over the drive plate, Vtec valve, oil pan and harness. Startup was good and test drive only ended up with three issues, exhaust leak, cause I'm a member of the cheep SOB club and tried to reuse an old exhaust gasket. No brainier to fix. Check engine light for inlet temp sensor high voltage. Again no brainier, swapped out the sensor and issue solved. Last the compressor/altanator makes a banging noise when the A/C is turned on. Can the belt being loose cause this type of noise? The compressor clutch spins free and soundlessly when unloaded. Unit does make plenty of cold.

Thanks
Dave

ezone

If the belt was loose I'd expect a screech upon startup, not a banging noise.
Got the compressor mounted tight? Mounting plate tight?
Alt mounting bracket tight? Alt bolts tight? (both are very important)


Stethoscope it, shouldn't be hard to locate if you can make the noise happen consistently.

E019110

Did the long screw driver trick and the noise is definitely coming from the compressor. Went back in and made sure everything I could reach without removing the PS pump was tight but no joy. I'll take it all apart and see if I can find anything. One thing I did notice was I could turn the compressor over by hand (just the center)and could feel resistance in one place. Was I feeling the compression cycle on the compressor?

ezone

Yes, that's normal.

Now spin just the compressor pulley:
Remove the drive belt, then spin the compressor pulley and listen for noise, wiggle check for excessive free play. Maybe the bearing in the pulley is bad?

E019110

Well the issue turned out to be 2 fold. One, there are four bolts holding the bracket to the block. The short bolt must go in the upper left hand position. Second there is a differance in the JDM compressor mount and the US version. You must swap the mount bracket to the US version so that it fits with the US compressor even thought the bolts will line up. Changed it out today and it blows cold air and is blessedly quite Think this one is done and ready to go back on the flight line. If I can help anyone with the swap I can be reached at djohn@ec.rr.com