guber

Hi, I just got a 2004 Civic Hybrid at 115k miles and I like it a lot, everything is good, except for this hard "shift" when I just drive it off from standing. Every time, from the driveway at a stop sign or stop light, just at the time when on a manual I would get ready to hit the clutch and shift into 2nd gear, its doing the "thump" sound. I have to confess that when I test drove it, I thought nothing of it, I thought it was the wheels getting too much torque and slipping (it was wet that day).

Everything else is fine. No problems shifting up no slipping whining nothing. Real smooth drive, except for that initial "thump" every time (no matter how gentle I engage the throttle).

Is it bad?

ezone

It's not a shudder feeling as you try to start moving, right?

The "thump" that I'm familiar with is the start clutch engaging, it works very much just like engaging a clutch on a manual trans car.
Happens within about maybe 3 feet of starting to move, depending on how much you accelerate.
Normal so far.

If it "thumps" at a speed much faster than initial takeoff, that doesn't sound right.

The wrong fluid in the trans can make these feel and act wrong (even more "wrong" than they already feel to someone not familiar with them). Takes a special Honda CVT fluid, not ordinary ATF. If the trans fluid looks bright red like ATF, it's probably WRONG.

Have one at the shop right now (for a different complaint) that has ATF instead of CVT fluid in the trans, and it does strange things. It "bumps" the start clutch repeatedly instead of releasing it when sitting at a stop, and it will jerk with a hard jolt at seemingly random times while accelerating or slowing down.
It's wrong, just wrong. But not a complaint by the driver.


Compare to another identical Civic Hybrid with the CVT trans before you want to complain about it.

Have a seasoned dealer tech drive it to see if it is average or not.

Also, have your dealer make certain all recalls and updates have been completed. There have been a lot of software updates for these.

guber

Thank you Sir! That is EXACTLY the feeling, as if I let go of a clutch real hard. It is exactly within 3 ft of starting to move.

AND, you are right, the fluid in there IS red, it looks like good unburnt ATF, but now I understand it is the wrong fluid.

So I shall do a fluid change. Where is the best way to do that ... alternative to a dealer? Do the normal lube shops have the stuff it takes? I guess I need a flush. But I don't want to pay "dealership" premium.

I read a bit on the right fluid on this forum. I gather Z1 is no longer available and the DW1 is used now. So the best price I can get is 6.50 but after shipping it's 8.33. Does AutoZone etc. have it? If I bring it to the "dealer" what is a fair price for the flush? If I get a case of 12 pints, is there a drain so I can flush it myself or is it like the usual tranny, where you have to open the box and it's a real mess?

Thanks!!

guber

I just answered my own question.

The JiffyLube people probably don't do it right and apparently the flushing gear can damage the tranny.

Here:

http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/f...10-post103115/

is a DYI procedure. Now I just have to get that good stuff. Any other place than dealer in Indianapolis?

ezone

Oh NO NO NO It is NOT ATF. Z1 and DW1 are ATF.

Look on the dipstick. Read the plastic tag attached to it.

The correct fluid is Hondas CVT fluid. It is not bright red like ATF, but has a pinkish/tan tint to it.

Good pic:


I wouldn't trust any other fluid, no matter how many times they print stuff on the label, and no matter what other people's opinions are.

IF someone put the wrong fluid in it, you might have to change the fluid a few times to get it all out.

I'd change it, then drive it a while, and see how it acts. Then decide if it helped or not. If it improved the feeling, then do it again.


Stay the hell out of JizzyLubes with this. You will not win.

If you can change your own oil, this is just as easy.

Take off the splash panel under the engine and trans.
Drainplug on the bottom of the trans, far to the drivers side. 3/8 square drive ratchet or extension. Drain it. Plug is #18 here. If you have the car jacked up in front, then the other plug #17 might drain more out.

Fill plug on top of the trans, 17mm, near the rear. Item #10 above. You can see it behind the air filter box.
About 3 quarts of fluid to drain and fill it.



Remember: The BUMP feeling is normal because it really is a clutch that is engaging when you start moving. It is always there, but the wrong fluid can exaggerate how it acts/feels.

ezone

Just go to a dealer for the fluid. That way you SHOULD know it is the right stuff, without question.

There are 2 types of CVT fluid at the dealer. The pic above is what you need. Not the other version.

guber

Yes, thank you very much. Hm, looking at the image of the color of Z1 and DW1, I see:



and so, I am a little less worried. Because what I saw was this sort of bright red. It's hard to distinguish from generic ATF by color. Perhaps everything is good actually. Except that I want to do a fluid change anyway, just perhaps I don't have to be so worried any more that it's the all wrong type just now. I'll order a case of 12 now and get to it when it arrives. Thanks a lot!!

BTW, the above picture is courtesy of http://www.fitfreak.net/forums/gener...omparison.html

ezone

Not sure if I read your post right.
ALL types of ATF are still wrong.

If it was brighter red than this fluid here, it's probably wrong. It should be like this (or darker as it gets used, it loses the reddish tint)

guber

Aha, Mr. Ezone, you are setting my head straight. Thank you!! Now I see it. Your bottle does not say DW1 or Z1, just CVT TF. Glad I didn't order the case yet. In fact I will go to the dealer, it seems online orders eat up the price advance in shipping costs.

What do you pay for the case at the dealer?

ezone

You're kidding, right?
I WORK for a dealer.
I don't own anything with a CVT trans, and I don't do the numbers.
I just fix the cars.






I can help you out though.....
Part #08200-9006 is $8.65 MSRP (1 quart).

Had to google for the part number....came from Amazon, they want $11.10/qt. there.



Dealers are free so set their own greedy price structures, so it may be wise to shop around. Phone first.

HTH

ezone

Remember: The BUMP feeling is normal because it really is a clutch that is engaging when you start moving. It will always be there.

cb450sc

I used to have a 2003 civic hybrid. I changed the fluid every third oil change. It made a major difference.

guber

Thank you, Mr. Ezone, you have been very helpful. I hope my question regarding dealer did not offend you.

If I get the MSRP I will be OK.

ezone

YW.

Some days the word "stealership" seriously offends me, other times not so much. I am a dealer tech, I spend an awful lot of my free time trying to help people. Sometimes I get short tempered, some people don't like my humor. Oh well. I'm not a people person.

If you aren't IN the car business or connected to it somehow, you don't normally get any discount.
Know someone that works in a shop? Maybe you could ask them to call for it, and then you go pick it up.

HTH
Ez1

guber

Update: I took it to the dealer / service and I wimped out, had them do the entire job plus oil change while I was working. Cost me 127 in the end (~ 50 oil + 80 TF). The price on the TF would have been about 8, so the labor cost I spent was about 80-90. I sat in the waiting room working my real job instead.

Now is 2 days later, and I have a CIL on ... O2 sensor. I'm going to open another thread on that one.

Thank you!

ezone

when I made my first reply to this thread, I told you to do this:


Did you make certain this was taken care of?

Just because you had it at the dealer doesn't mean anyone bothered to look for this.

Dave88LX

Found this thread looking up my own juddery transmsision woes.

If I took the car to a dealer for a trans fluid exchange (I don't know if flush is the right word, "drain and refill"), is updating the software typically an extra cost? I'll make some calls tomorrow too.

ezone

Trans fluid change or service is usually considered to be one drain and fill, unless otherwise stated.

If the software update is not part of a recall or warranty repair, then of course there is a fee.

Software doesn't fix the CVT start clutch issues though.

The software update check suggested earlier in this thread was to possibly address the CEL code mentioned by the OP.

HTH