ezone

All correct up to this point.

The wire colors are not always white but they are a pair of identical colored wires

I don't know the actual spec for the heater off the top of my head though, some run up to 40 ohm, others may run as low as 1 ohm.

Dave88LX

I certainly hope it's the circuit in the O2 sensor itself; I certainly don't want to be chasing down electrical gremlins. Probably best to just replace it.

Not a cheap sensor...

NTK 24665
OE Type 4-Wire A/F Sensor UPSTREAM <--(ROCKAUTO'S NOTES)
$203 @ Rock Auto ($160 @ Amazon)

DENSO 2349005
Upstream; DENSO is the OE Manufacturer Air Fuel Ratio Sensor <--(ROCKAUTO'S NOTES)
$115 @ Rock Auto ($95 @ Amazon)

Anything the NTK will do the Denso won't? $160 is better than $200 at least.



The sensors I pulled out were neither NTK or Denso. Something else with three letters. Have the pic in my car.

ezone

What were your ohm test results?

No, you just got used to cheap O2 sensors.
This is now an A/F sensor you are dealing with.
Looks the same, smells the same, does about the same job, but the AF sensor is much much more accurate.
Cannot substitute an O2 sensor for an AF sensor, they don't operate the same way.

Not sure what you are thinking here.

Dave88LX

Haven't had the chance to check yet, been at work. I'll try and check that tonight.

Fair enough, I probably have! Good explanation.

Not following. Thinking in what way? Why Denso if NTK is available? I just fear that I'll drop another $160 on the sensor and still fail emissions, not want to buy an IMA battery, and have to sell/part the car out.

ezone

Why bother with NTK, if DENSO was original equipment?
Where did you get $160 from? (Read your quoted prices above, unless somehow this is completely wrong.)

Dave88LX

Oh. I don't know if Denso was OE; that was the note from RockAuto. Sorry for the confusion, I updated that post.

NTK is $200 from RockAuto; $160 from Amazon.

Denso is $115 from Rockauto, $95 from Amazon.

I don't know which actually came with the car yet, since the two I pulled so far appear to be neither at first glance.

I had leaned toward NTK over Denso due to a post of yours I had seen in the past I can't find now, which basically said to use NTK if available, if not use Denso. But I also see where you say "use whichever brand came in the car"...which I don't know...

ezone

Whenever possible.

I don't have any way to tell which brand was OE just from looking in my parts catalog.
Research (Google) the Honda part number and see if that reveals anything?

Dave88LX

Here is the two I pulled from underneath.

OHF 545-H5 and 545-H7 I think were the numbers. I replaced these two with NTK.



Looked at the front one, Denso. Bought that Denso, paid the extra $3.99, it'll be here tomorrow, then I can move on to the next life-changing decision. I appreciate all your help!

ezone

Hit those sensors with a wire wheel on the ring where you see NTK stamped in my sensor, I bet you'll find NTK on yours too.




The front AF sensor says DENSO on it, I'd keep it Denso.

Dave88LX

Yep kept that one Denso. Interesting that if the rear pair of O2 sensors were factory, NTK, that there was a mix-and-match.

That front sensor was a 5 minute job, and that's rounding up to 5.

Code is gone for the meanwhile. The other two codes also disappeared as well as the IMA light. I'm sure that will come back on as soon as I start driving, haven't had a chance to drive yet.

Torque (app) let you pull up the Readiness status but I can't get it to talk with my Bluetooth interface anymore. I'll have to try the other programs.

ezone

Turn the key to run (II) but do not start the engine.
Leave it on for about 20 seconds while watching the CEL.
If it flashes several times that means the readiness tests have not completed yet.

Dave88LX

Sensor code went away. Battery codes came back on about 2 miles down the road...LOL. Kind of expected that. Was hoping I could keep them off for a day to run it through emissions. Haven't done anything else yet.

ezone

Will they fail the emissions test because of IMA battery codes?

Dave88LX

I will find out very soon. We have some pretty stupid people in Maryland...I'm willing to bet they will fail it.

No Hybrid exemption:

• [*]
• [*]

Here is what's interesting though, and why I feel this whole thing is just a big moneygrab. There is a way around it. I just need to game the system.
http://www.mva.maryland.gov/about-mv.../58000-07T.htm
Essentially it's a big state-sponsored moneygrab racket. Nevermind the diesel pickups blowing black smoke all over, or the hundreds or thousands of gallons of gas (I didn't do the math) the car has saved over the course of the last 150K miles. I think failing it for the battery is just ignorant. We'll see.




You must have your vehicle re-tested until it passes the required VEIP tests or until you receive a repair waiver. To be eligible for the waiver you must have made emissions-related repairs to your vehicle totaling at least $450.00. The cost of an emissions-related repair can be counted if it was made:
during the 30 days before the initial VEIP test; or,
on the day of the initial VEIP test; or,
during the period following the initial VEIP test and prior to the last failed test.


To apply for the repair waiver, you also must complete and submit to the VEIP station the repair waiver request (on the reverse side of the vehicle emissions inspection certificate) and the original invoices, receipts and/or repair orders for the emissions-related repairs. A Station Representative will visually inspect your vehicle to verify that all emissions equipment is present and that the repairs you paid for were completed.

Federal and state laws may not allow the costs of repairs to the exhaust system, beyond the catalytic converter, to count toward the expenditure requirement for a repair waiver. Repair waivers are not issued if any emission control devices are disconnected or removed.

If you have not spent at least $450.00 on repairs at the time of re-testing, your vehicle will need to be repaired again and undergo another test. You will be charged for each additional re-test, after the first re-test which is free.


So I have just over $200 in the three O2 sensors, $0 in labor. I'm sure I can't bill for my own time. It would have been $350 in O2 sensors if I had bought the most expensive options from RockAuto, or I could have easily spent over $450 buying them from the dealer for just the rear pair. I have NO IDEA what having a price minimum has to do with anything here.

This is why we have fraud.

Dave88LX

Just found something else while poking around: error mil: off spark ignition

I'll read up on this later: http://www.autotap.com/techlibrary/a...n_misfires.asp

ezone

Ok but I don't remember you saying anything about misfire issues though?

Dave88LX

Not that I have noticed. But, when I pulled up the DTC codes on a scan, it was listed there.

I found this in that link I posted above though:

If the misfire problem has gone away and does not reoccur on the second or following trips, the OBDII system may erase the temporary misfire code and forget the entire episode. The code may also be erased if no misfires are encountered under similar driving conditions during the next 40 drive cycles.


Knowing this, you should always look at the history freeze frame data when diagnosing a misfire code. If the code set when the engine was cold, chances are the OBDII system is being overly sensitive and there is no real misfire problem.

With that said, I haven't done anything tune-up wise to the car. Plugs have at least 45K miles (bought at 100K, current mileage 145K). I assume they are coil-on-plug and not wires.

ezone

Your first post in this thread mentions nothing about any misfire codes:

I wouldn't worry about misfires unless or until it sets codes for it.

===========================


Yeah, there's a whole bunch of them: 8 coils and 8 plugs.

They are precious metal plugs, 100k replacement intervals.....but most would outlast the car (negligible wear) as long as they don't go bad or foul out.