IROKGEN7

I was drivin to school lastnight and my 05 Civic died on me all of a sudden. While I was rolling I tried to pop the clutch, it would start then die and even back fire. When I stopped, I tried starting... same thing. Tow truck took me home.

Recently did the timing belt, maybe two weeks ago. I ripped it apart today. Timing marks are good, I have spark, I have fuel and air. I ran the scanner and there were no codes. I disconnected the crank sensor, and it ran just fine. Replaced the cranks sensor and the car still wont run. Im out of ideas.

I dont have the cash for a repair shop, anyone have this problem before? I appreciate any help.

ezone

You disconnected the CAM sensor or crank sensor?

DID the car run for 2 seconds then die before you disconnected it?
This usually happens when it jumps time, the PCM shuts it down to protect it.

IROKGEN7

It was the crank sensor. When I disconnect it, the car runs normal.

Yea the car starts for two seconds and then chokes and dies. I checked my timing marks and they are lined up right.

Do I have to reset the PCM when I replace the Crank Sensor?

ezone

No.


The PCM believes it is out of time, that's why it shuts down. It only takes one tooth out to shut it down.


Reconnect the crank sensor, disconnect the cam sensor. See if it runs like that.


Let me make sure we are on the same page here......
The crank sensor connects behind the harmonic balancer/crank pulley,




and
The one that connects through the upper timing cover is the cam sensor:



HTH

ezone

Look for corrosion in the terminals of the CKP connector too.

IROKGEN7

I know the difference between the two sensors. I replaced them both. Very simple once I took everything apart.

The car will not run with the cam sensor diconnected.

I checked all other sensors, and I still havent found anything. I checked fuel pressure allso, its good.

I did check it for corrosion. I even sprayed some Electric Connector cleaner for good measure. Still not working

ezone

So then it must not like the signal it sees?


At the CKP connector: Voltmeter--Is there a 12v, a ground, and a 5v?

On the crank timing pulley, are all of the trigger wheel points all good? None damaged or missing?




Heck, I'm just guessing at possible stuff now...

IROKGEN7

I Check all of these, they are good.


I havent checked voltage on the actual connecter, Ill do that now.


I cant think of anything else either It runs great with the CKP DISconnected. Im out a car for now.

IROKGEN7

ok ran the scanner again... I got code P0335... dunno what that means but im gonna look into it. Any other thoughts? Anyone? HELP!!!

ezone

CKP no signal.

That's because you have been running it without the crank sensor connected.


Clear the code, reconnect everything, then crank it and see if any codes set.

04 Honda Civic

iTrader: (2)

Pretty odd problem.
I believe your problem is at the connector side and not the sensor itself.
Triple check your timing marks.

With the ignition switch on:
1 2 3 (Yellow and Black is #3)

-Terminal 3 should have battery voltage when grounded
-Jumping terminal 1 and 2 should have battery voltage
-Terminal 1 should have 5 volts when grounded

mikey1

the fact that you were in there messing around two weeks ago is a bit of a red flag, and seems like a strange coincidence to me, i would start by double checking and triple checking all your work....

no offense but this sounds like an installation error of some sort....no idea what though, if the timing marks are fine as you say,

is the timing belt tight? did you use the granade pin method when installing the new belt? is the tensioner bolt torqued down properly?

if you have replaced the crank sensor with a new one....

faulty wiring to the sensor is the only thing i can think of, or the wiring connector itself....

also make sure the crank pulley (the grey pulley that turns the belt) is clean,

are you saying the engine will run fine without the sensor plugged in? meaning it will continue to run? or will it eventually die?

IROKGEN7

Thanks for all of you input everyone. I havent looked at my car since thurs. Im put in some wrench time today. See what I come up with.

anthonyhean

Hello Irok. I'm having same problem with my 01. I took it to a mom and pop shop. they actually replaced both cam and crank sensor. Checked the timing. Replaced map sensor. And even put a new ecm in with a new ignition that had a different key coded for ecm. They did all that, replaced everything and still car would not start. So the only solution left was to disconnect the crank sensor. Car now starts fine......just really long cranking time before engine fires, CEL is on dash and can't shift past 3,500rpm. But at least it starts now! Have you found any updates on your situation? What was the fix?

mikey1

your computer thinks the engine is "out of time"

if the timing is truely correct, and you have new cam and crank sensors, then there is a problem with the wiring between the crank sensor and computer,

start by inspecting the connector pins at the crank sensor, sometimes they rust up pretty bad from road spray

anthonyhean

Thanks Mikey for reply. I finally found out what was wrong with it. The timing itself was off by one teeth. I don't know how....but the teeth jumped one tooth. I'm not the only one that ran into this problem. Apparently several other people were stumped by this situation. It's not a common problem, but enough occurances to raise questions on why it is doing that. Maybe faulty honda tensioners?? My mechanic was stumped for a while until I did all the research through a bunch of honda forums and seems like everybody all came to the same answer. My mechanic still charged me $260 to fix. I felt that was overpriced......but it was probably a big discount considering he took a week to diagnose it and I approached him with a possible solution....haha

mikey1

$260 seems very reasonable to me,

he would need to remove the timing belt and put it back on, its a big job

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

He said his timing was right on... if that's the case probably used an aftermarket sensor.

mikey1

read post 16,

timing was off

ezone

He's also not the OP of this thread.


Well, it threw me off for a minute anyway.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the tip. I'm well aware of what's going on in this thread though

Hillel

I'm having a similar issue with my 02. Was accelerating one night and the car just stalled. Pulled over and tried to start. Crank, Start, run for a second, stall consistently. Fuel and spark good. Pulled the Camshaft Position sensor that's behind the upper timing cover and it started after the computer was cleared, but wont rev very high. I tried replacing the CSP sensor, but it's not a bad sensor... it just seems that the computer is getting the wrong reading from it. If I plug it back in it wont run. Anyone think the belt could have jumped a tooth or some?

mikey1

that is possible,

i would pull the timing cover and check the timing marks

ezone

Sounds like it's jumped time.

The shutdown is an attempt to avoid internal engine damage. You found the clue, now fix the problem before it gets really really expensive.
It doesn't jump time for no reason.

Hillel

it looks like my cam seal? is hosed and leaking... perhaps getting soaked with oil would make it easier to jump teeth?

ezone

Leaking cam seal by itself? Not likely to be the root cause.

Does it make a clacking rattling noise during the 2 seconds it will run?


How many miles on the car?
Automatic trans or manual?

When was the last timing belt service performed?
Were the tensioner pulley and spring replaced during that service?

Hillel

Doesn't seem to be making a clacking rattling noise.

147k miles, auto trans., I bought the car used last year and don't know last time the tb service was performed and therefore none of the other info pertaining to that.

So I just got some more wrench time in... I have the cam at TCD and the marks on the CSP are off.... about maybe an inch or so too far to the right. That pretty much determines the problem I guess...

ezone

Sounds like it was due for the timing belt job then.
Hope it didn't damage any valves by being out of time, but you said it ran then with the sensor unplugged so it may be ok.

I would say to replace any seals (cam, front crank, and valve cover) while it's apart, maybe the water pump too.

and definitely replace the tensioner pulley with spring, and use dealer part for that.

Too many failures reported when aftermarket tensioner pulleys are used, and it can cost you dearly if it lets go, it is an interference engine (it will bend valves).

I prefer dealer parts and fluids, I don't have to spend one minute worrying about quality.

Hillel

Daaaang, they want $100 for just the pulley!!!

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

Small price to pay for peace of mind.....which you may not currently have being at 150k and not knowing if this critical maintenance work has been performed, or not.