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Old 05-18-2012   #1
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car stalls a few seconds after start

Problem started after replacing my fuel pump, although Im starting to think this is a coincidence or possibly related, but not the issue, since the new pump seems to be working fine. When ignition turned to on, i hear the relay click and can hear faint buzz from the pump. Ive even pulled the line out and watched it shoot fuel out. Car always starts, but doesnt go more than 3-7 seconds before dying. Sometimes its rough right from the get-go and dead 3 seconds later. Others it starts, sounds good for about 3/4 secs, gets rough and dies. I have noticed that for the few seconds it runs even before idle gets rough it sounds much higher than it should. Also I have 0 codes, so no help there. I have to wait till the morning to check fuel pressure but was wanted to get a few opinions first. Just to get brains workin, i got a couple of starter ideas.
Could relay be malfunctioning, even if its pushing fuel ( primes enough to start, but starving even at idle??)
bad/dirty crankshaft pos sensor? Ive been told I can unplug and start engine (if it stops stalling, this is your problem), but it seems like a terrible plan so i wanted to get some input first
Dirty throttle body? Im gonna end up cleaning this anyway, though i doubt it would cause this

I also feel I should note: When I was initially removing the old fuel pump, I noticed the fuel supply line wasnt fully seated connecting to the pump, and there was a small amout of fuel puddled because of it. The only thing i can think is built up pressure popped it off? Might not be relevant but who knows.

Gonna have to start up early in the morning, so any help in which direction i should be headed would be greatly apprieciated. Thnx in advance

Last edited by civiczzz; 05-18-2012 at 05:02 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 05-18-2012   #2
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Re: car stalls a few seconds after start

Since i cant remember it happening for the past few months, I forgot, but i should add that starting maybe 8 months ago my stereo would randomly stay on, display, audio and all, for about 5 to 10 seconds after i removed key from ignition. It wouldnt happen everytime, and as i said i think its been a while since the last time. More often, the drivers side control for the drivers power windows sometimes wont work. typically if i wait a few seconds and try again it will start working. THis has been on going for maybe a year, sometimes twice in 2 days, sometimes in 2 months.

Im at a complete loss as to how all these issues connect. Really any advice or suggestions would be helpful. Going to recheck all fuses and relays now.
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Old 05-18-2012   #3
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Re: car stalls a few seconds after start

No ideas? anyone? hah as you can see im getting desperate...\
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Old 05-19-2012   #4
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Re: car stalls a few seconds after start

Well I checked all the relays I could find and all tested good, so thats out. Really, no one has any other ideas/ pro diagnostic tricks i could use to try to figure this out? Last option I can come to is to chexk the timing, which Im hesitant to do, since Ive never done it before, and would have only good ol haynes by my side. Ill post tomorrow if i figure it out. Hitting a junkyard and gonna pick up every possible replacement part I can manage to convince my frugal brain will fix it. Will post if I figure it out so others can benefit from it
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Old 05-19-2012   #5
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Re: car stalls a few seconds after start

I would use a test light to monitor the power to the fuel pump.
See if it is still receiving B+ at the time that it acts bad/ties to stall.



Radio: More test light checks, make sure power was removed from the ACC feed wire when the key is turned off....during the time the radio stayed on.
Window? No idea. Master switch? Need to witness it, I guess.

HTH
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Old 05-20-2012   #6
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Re: car stalls a few seconds after start

First thnx ezone for your advice. This was driving me up the wall. But it seems the new pump itself was faulty. Leaking from casing. Finally got a hold of my friend, who looked at it while i was at work today for me. Guess thats what i get for buying the cheapest pump off ebay i could find. Ordered a new one- shipping from warehouse to local store- picking it up in the morning. But while Im waiting, do you see any link between the issues Im having? Ive been trying to find a relay/fuse that could effects those particular systems intermittently, maybe caused/worstened by heat? I live in Az so the summers get pretty warm here (110-115 within a month or 2). Theres a good chance the pump will fix my current problem, but with how exhausting this diagnostic has been I want to be rdy to go with a new plan if i still cant get it to stay on.

Ezone- I cant remember the radio stayed on in a while. Maybe resolved itself? But if it starts acting up again Ill make sure to do that.
------------window- Plan on checking the wiring for the switch after i get it running again.
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Old 05-20-2012   #7
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Re: car stalls a few seconds after start

Bear with me.
Somewhere in here, I realized I can't read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by civiczzz View Post
but with how exhausting this diagnostic has been I want to be rdy to go with a new plan if i still cant get it to stay on.
Throwing parts at it is not diagnosis.

It dies.
An engine needs compression, fuel, and spark. In the correct amounts, and at the correct times. Which is missing when it dies?

A simple $3 test light (or less for a light bulb and 2 wires), a wiring diagram, and a little knowledge of how it all works:

Inspecting for power and ground for the fuel pump right at the tank connector should tell what the next step is (for me).
No guesswork.

If the pump isn't powered up as the engine stumbles and dies, then the main (pump) relay is suspect. Continue the next test at the relay. Is it switching power? Is that relay getting turned on at the right times? Bark up the tree to reach the source of the problem.

If it stays powered up until the engine stops, then the pump is suspect. Fuel pressure checks should tell the rest of that story.
You said you have a fuel pressure tester?
Does it reach proper pressure when running?
Will it hold residual pressure after the pump stops running? (This checks check valves and leakage in the pressurized side of it.)

HINT: The original pumps rarely go bad. Filter may clog, pressure regulator might go bad, but the pump itself is extremely rare here.

Running for only a few seconds then stumble and die, sounds like the pump didn't get turned on. That's my theory, now I would prove or disprove my theory.


Quote:
I live in Az so the summers get pretty warm here (110-115 within a month or 2).
The interior can reach 180-200 on a hot day, in the sun, almost anywhere. So does the engine compartment.


Quote:
crankshaft pos sensor? Ive been told I can unplug and start engine (if it stops stalling, this is your problem),
You can try this on the CAM sensor (CMP). If it runs with the sensor unplugged, then it has probably jumped time. (But this should probably set a code, so I doubt this is it.) A 7th gen (DIS, COP) shouldn't run at all with the crank sensor unplugged.




Quote:
buying the cheapest pump off ebay i could find


do you see any link between the issues Im having?
Yes.

Cheapass parts.


Oh.
Did you mean a link between the radio and windows?
I still don't see a connection at this time. Once the answers are figured out, maybe a common denominator could be found.

HTH
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Old 05-21-2012   #8
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Re: car stalls a few seconds after start

Hooked up gauge to test fuel pressure, but suddenly the relay isnt working at all. It was definitely working before ( felt it clicking AND had fuel going to the lines) during priming at least. Now nothing. Do the relays go out in stages like that? IE was failing slowly and now just shot?
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Old 05-21-2012   #9
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Re: car stalls a few seconds after start

The electrical contacts inside a relay can fail in many different ways when burn/oxidation/pitting occurs. All are failures.

Test light.
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Old 05-21-2012
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