samuelito210

ok so i took my civic 05 ex manual transmission to get the cv axle shaft replaced because the boot was cut. So they get the job done and i drive away with my car. Turns out the next day there is transmission fluid everywhere. So i take it back and they said that the axle came out of the differential but not completely out just enough to let the oil leak out. So they fix it and once again i drive away. Again the problem occurs. So this time i take it back once again and they change the c clip at the end of the axle and pop back in and they say that should do it. Now im here posting this thread because the problem reocurred. i took it somewhere else to take a look at it and they even bought an original honda oem clip and still nothing. The axle does not lock in the differential. you can easily pull it out. So any body have any suggestion as to why this is happening? The axle is good the length and everything and so is the differential splines etc its jst that it wont lock inside. Is the manual axle and the automatic axle shafts different for the 7th gen civics? maybe the guys that i first took it too didnt know. Help!!!!!oh the axle was remanufactured one not new.

samuelito210

wow no one!

anibis

I'm not sure if the auto/manual axle are the same but I would be surprised if they are. The shop needs to make sure it's the correct axle. Even if it is I'd try a different brand.

If the axle is the correct length then the lip inside the diff that the clip seats into prob broke when removing the old axle.

The trans would have to be opened and diff replaced.

04 Honda Civic

iTrader: (2)

I am pretty sure that automatic and manual axles are different. Make sure you got the right one.

If the shop that installed it originally put the wrong one in then what you are saying is very much possible.

Go back and verify that they put the correct axle in. Otherwise buy a different axle and try that.

samuelito210

well as far as the lip being busted, i did not have this problem before so i wouldn't think that that is the problem. Is it really easy to break that lip when removing an old axle and putting a new one? I wouldn't think that the shop broke that clip but if they did im pretty much screwed. But i will try getting a different brand new axle and trying that first.

While the axle is out can you see inside the differential enough to be able to tell if the lip is broken. Because i had someone look at it and said that everything inside the differential looks fine as far as he can tell. He just couldn't understand why it would not lock inside. He told me to order a new one.

ezone

well as far as the lip being busted, i did not have this problem before so i wouldn't think that that is the problem. Is it really easy to break that lip when removing an old axle and putting a new one?


The C clip locks into the side gear of the differential. I have never ever seen one of those break on an axle job.
I have seen the transmission case break before that gear did.


I wouldn't think that the shop broke that clip but if they did im pretty much screwed. But i will try getting a different brand new axle and trying that first.

While the axle is out can you see inside the differential enough to be able to tell if the lip is broken. Because i had someone look at it and said that everything inside the differential looks fine as far as he can tell. He just couldn't understand why it would not lock inside. He told me to order a new one.

Random thoughts:

Aftermarket and reman axles aren't always made to the same specs as an original.
Clip widths might be different from original.
The size (width) of the groove it sits in might be different.

The clip itself could be sprung to an incorrect diameter (this sounds quite likely to be your problem).

The clip may just be in the wrong place (completely wrong axle for this application, no matter if it is the right length, and also likely to be your problem).

If its (unstressed) diameter is too small, it would let the shaft fall out because it wasn't locked in place against the splines of the diff side gear.
If its sprung to a size that is too big, it may go in and NEVER come back out. (this is how a trans case got broken!)

-------------------------------------------------

At any rate, you PAID GOOD MONEY for a shop to fix the car, and they have not completed their end of the deal.
Make them solve the problem they created. (It can't really be THAT tough, can it?)
If they can't fix it in a timely manner or return your money (I would want the original parts too), then lawyer up. (Note: the original axle was already sent back to the parts store for a core charge.)

You can't drive a paperweight. It will be a paperweight in short order if the trans loses fluid and you ruin it.

HTH

samuelito210

Well hopefully i can get the shop to fix it. Well i ordered a new axle from oreillys. Made sure it was a manual and for a 05 civic ex. The parts number were different so obviously automatic and manual arent the same. They almost gave me an automatic one because they didnt even ask so i had to tell them myself.

If this new part does not work, which i cross my finger that it does, then at least i get my mind out of doubt that its the axle and not the transmission itself. Hopefully like ezone stated, that the spring is not correctly sprung to the right diameter and after opening it up a bit more it can lock the new axle in there or the spring is in the wrong place and once it sits in the new axle it does its job right. the same shop is putting it in there free of charge so hopefully this is the last time i have to take my car there.

the axle is about 1 finger width away fromt the tranny so oil was leaking and ive lost almost 2 pints of oil but it has stopped leaking like before, now it barely leaks. I have been driving like this and keeping an eye on my oil level but idk if im messin up my tranny. I have no other way to get to University.

ezone

FYI:

I see for a 4 door car (I did not narrow it down any further than 2 or 4 door cars):

10 different choices for a NEW right axle
6 different choices for a right side factory reman axle.

8 choices for new left axle
4 choices for left reman



2 door car:
Right axle, 4 choices for each new or reman
left axle 4 choices each for new or reman.

Looks like plenty of opportunities to get it wrong for either side.


These are all in the factory parts catalog.

ezone

BZZZZT
Wrong-o?
It's still something with the axle.
Aftermarket is always a crapshoot.
You could end up paying the price for factory parts, just to get it correct.

Had to do just this with a Hyundai Santa Fe this week, 2 wrong axles from the aftermarket and some damage to the transfer case unit due to incorrect diameter of the stub. Fix the transfer case and get a factory axle, went together smoothly.

samuelito210

ok ezone now you got me worried again. 4 door or 2 door was never given as an option when choosing the axle shaft. I did not think that made a difference. I thought that was the same for sure. Well now it looks like i probably got the wrong part again. Hopefully not. We will see though on saturday for sure and ill let everybody know what happened.

samuelito210

Man i hope i did not do any damage to the transfer case and i have to do is get th correct axle. This little axle axle problem is turning out into a nightmare.

ezone

I wouldn't have thought so either, but I looked.
Problem is, the catalog doesn't give a clue what the differences are. Choices an be narrowed down by the transmission and build origin, but that wouldn't eliminate all possibilities.

ezone

You don't have a transfer case.
You don't have a Santa Fe with 4WD.
I was only saying that as an example of getting multiple wrong parts from the aftermarket. (Both from Oreillys too, LOL)
I get wrong parts from the dealers and factory too, and the actual causes vary. I just have to deal with it.


It isn't a nightmare until you panic.
This is a simple problem with a simple solution.
It's just a matter of getting the right parts.
Don't panic.

samuelito210

well now 5th gear started to pop out just recently. yesterday it did it once and now today its done it over and over again on the highway. I dont know if it has anything to do with the axle not being in the right place. If my transmission messed up im pretty much f****. This is the worst year of my life.

ezone

It is because of the fluid loss, no matter what caused the fluid loss.

Didn't anyone tell you to STOP DRIVING IT?
Did you really need to be told this?
(I guess so.)

5th gear usually starts popping out (the first one to do it) when the fluid is run low. 4th would be next to pop out if you keep trying to drive it. And so forth.
5th is the highest (physical location) and farthest up out of the oil bath as the fluid level drops.
Is the trans howling and growling yet? If it is, then it's probably too late.

Collateral damage due to the leak, due to the axle issues.
You had better HOPE that refilling the fluid solves this issue.
The shop should have told you to stop driving as soon as the leakage was noticed.

You KNEW it was leaking, yet you continued to drive it. Ignorance is no excuse.

The sad reality of this is, this is now your own fault for continuing to drive it with a known problem.
I would not expect a shop to be responsible for anything but obtaining the correct axle and installing it, as part of the original deal.
(IF the axle is what it takes to solve the original problem!)

If I understand your posts correctly: I'm not sure why you took it upon yourself to try to get different axles and such, and it's really irrelevant now. By doing so, it is now out of the shops realm of responsibility. The shop should have been handling all aspects of this.
IMHO: It's YOUR baby now.


Insurance companies operate this way too: Let's say that you have an accident and it knocks the radiator out, all antifreeze is leaking out on the road while you talk to the cops and make the accident reports.
You think it will make it home -- (uhhh, the wheels look fine!), so you try to drive it home and the engine has a meltdown because it leaked out all of the antifreeze.
Insurance would fix the body damage and radiator, but you now own an engine that is a paperweight. It would have been just fine if you hadn't tried to drive it home.

Yes, I have actually been a part of this situation when a customer and their insurance company did exactly this.

It's called a "stupid tax".
Expect to pay it.
Hope you don't, but I'd sure expect you will.

samuelito210

I know its my fault. I had no other way to get to school and out of desperation i had to keep using the car. I did refill the oil but i guess it ended up dropping it again. The transmission was not roaring or grinding or nothing like that. It was still running smoothly. Just 5th gear kept popping out on the highway. Hopefuly adding more oil does fix the problem. The car is in the mechanic right now and tomorrow i will get the new axle put in there. I will also add more honda mtf and hopefully the car runs like a champ tomorrow. If not and i screwed up the transmission i just dont know what im gonna do. I hate myself right now for being so dum. I should of never changed the axle in the first place.

ezone

Sorry if you thought I was being harsh in the last post. Wasn't really trying to be, but it seems to have turned out that way.

I know its my fault. I had no other way to get to school

Bus, taxi, Mom, friends, friends' mom?
Rental car?
LIMO! Stylin' and profilin'!
LOL


The transmission was not roaring or grinding or nothing like that.

There is still hope.
Cross your fingers.
Pray to the deity of your choosing.

See how it goes after it is back together.



The car is in the mechanic right now

Umm, "in" or "at"?
School: yours ain't working.
ROFL

and tomorrow i will get the new axle put in there. I will also add more honda mtf and hopefully the car runs like a champ tomorrow.

Ok seriously:
Who is working on the car, you or a mechanic?
If a shop is doing this, they should be the ones refilling the trans.
Sorry, just a nit-pick there.



If not and i screwed up the transmission i just dont know what im gonna do.

Wait and see how it goes.

Hope you learn from this.

I hate myself right now for being so dum. I should of never changed the axle in the first place.

If the CV joint was not yet noisy (clacking during a sharp turn), they sell new rubber boots by themselves, with grease and clamps. Most can be saved if caught before the noise starts.
More work-- but you would still have the original correct parts.

If the joint was already noisy, then it needed replaced.


HTH

samuelito210

Its alright, like i said i take full responsibility for the new transmission problem. My Mom Dad cant take me to school, they have no time for me, my friends, well they dont live anywhere near me and i have no one else that could take me.

Also, im not the one working on he car it is a mechanic doing the work. If it sounds like im the one doing it, well i would but i dont have the necessary tools to do so.

As far as 5th gear popping out, lets say that the transmission has no harm done, then adding more fluid will fix the problem? because i dont see how low fluid causes the 5th gear to pop out. Once i get the fluid in there, would i also need to replace something in the transmission?

ezone

As far as 5th gear popping out, lets say that the transmission has no harm done, then adding more fluid will fix the problem?

Yes.
Well, no.
Refilling the fluid to the proper level will.



because i dont see how low fluid causes the 5th gear to pop out.

It's pure freekin magic, kid. Accept it.
LOL

Don't you know anything about lube and friction yet? Ask a girl. LOL


Ok, Lack of fluid and lubrication causes tremendous amounts of friction and heat to be generated.
The parts were not designed to be subjected to this heat and friction caused by the loss of lubrication.
Heat+steel+aluminum=unequal and unintended expansion+friction+binding. Binding (caused by friction) makes it pop out of gear.

I've seen many transmissions do this, not just Hondas. Simply having OLD fluid in there has been known to cause it too, due to friction.
I've seen many of them taken apart after failures because of fluid loss. The gears actually get hot enough to bake the gear lube off of them and turn the hardened steel blue.

Once i get the fluid in there, would i also need to replace something in the transmission?

Not if it all works right again. I might drain and fill the fluid after figuring out that it all still works, just to see if any metal comes out of the drainplug. Catch the fluid in a clean gallon jug, then run it through a coffee filter or fine screen so you can see if there is metal in it.
If the drainplug has a magnet attached, inspect it for steel.

There is a lot of work and cost involved in taking a trans out and taking it apart. I wouldn't touch it if it is quiet, shifts good, and all works right. I wouldn't touch it until work is necessary.

HTH

samuelito210

Ok so today i got my new axle and i took it to the shop. They compared the axles and the axles were completely different. The ones they had ordered were also from Oreilley but they had the automatic cv axle and i got the manual axle. The manual axle was a bit hard to put in, but once inside it wouldnt come out anymore with just regular force, it required a great deal of force put into it.

Also I bought 3 quarts of Honda mtf and the shop added it in. They dumped all the other oil that was inside the transmission, and only about a quart came out. I was running about 2 quarts low. There was no sign of metal pieces inside the fluid so it seemed as everything was ok. I took her for a spin and not one drop of oil fluid came out. The axle didnt even budge from the differential and best of all 5th gear did not pop out anymore and the tranny sounded better than ever

Thanks everyone specially ezone for being of great help.

ezone

YAY for you!
You must be doing that good, clean living.
The Gods are smiling upon you.

It's all sunshine and puppy dogs in your world right now, right?

Glad it turned out good. Could have been a lot worse.




I didn't want to tell you this before because you would have never slept at all:
My 2nd car, when I was like 19, was an old VW Rabbit, like a 79.
It lost an axle seal. Drips while parked. Didn't think much of it.
I didn't realize just how much that trans needed the gear lube, just like you.
I figured I could fix it the next weekend.
It didn't last two days.
It never popped out of gear though.
It trashed the trans. Ruined bearings, and ruined the aluminum case when the bearing locked up. It only rattled and growled for a short while, then made a loud BANG and got reeeeeal quiet and wouldn't move anymore.

That wasn't cheap for a young kid.
It would have been real cheap if I fixed the leak right away, but my dumbazz didn't do it.

I paid the tax.
I learned from that experience.




"Experience: Something you get just after you needed it."

samuelito210

well i guess you can that, but Im still not jumping around and celebrating just yet. Im still checking under the car and making sure eveything is fine. Once about 2 weeks or so go by then ill be a little bit less paranoid.

As for what happened to your vw rabbit, man i can only begin to imagine how that felt at that age. Im glad i didnt have to go through it(knock on wood) and from your exerience you were able to give me a heads up.

Im still afraid that at any point something could go wrong inside the transmission from driving it with low fluid. Hopefully that little honda transmission was able to take the beating that i gave it and lasts me a few more years.

darkshin

I know this post is very old but I had the same problem how did you fix it please get back to me.this is hell for me to

bluciv

If you are talking about axle popping out, he fixed it by verifying the proper axle was ordered in the first place. Many variable, 2 or 4 door, auto or manual.

As for the OP the next time you want something done at that shop I'd order all parts myself if possible.