RippedReverend

Hi, new here.

I have a 2003 Civic LX Sedan 1.7 auto trans. engine turns over won't start. Was running perfect. Got in it the next day and wouldn't start.

Battery/Good

Replaced spark plugs, coils, starter.

Main relay clicks when in on position. The other main relay clicks when I turn off the ignition.

I can hear the fuel pump turn on. It reads 10volts at the pump.

I disconnected the fuel line where you would do a pressure test and some gas was in there.

There is also voltage at the starter.

Im clueless on where to go from here. Seems everything is working why won't it start?

The immoberlizer light doesn't stay on eighter.

RippedReverend

also all four injectors are reading 11 and the plug has 12+ volts to them

ezone

What are the compression test results?

Are the sparkplugs wet?

What is the fuel pressure?

Any codes?

RippedReverend

only codes are the o2 sensors bc their out. Has headers in the car. fuel pressure?

don't know. was told the kit was like 200$ bc needs special connector.

spark plugs wet?
do i only turn over once or twice and them pull plugs?

ezone

When did you replace these?

RippedReverend

last friday

ezone

How many miles on the car?
Timing belt done?

Last Friday....has it ran since then?


Does it sound funny while the engine is cranking?

Pull out a sparkplug right now. Is it wet with fuel?

RippedReverend

stand by

RippedReverend

dude!!! it almost started! never got to a stable run it shut off. I put my hand on the main relay felt click then anther click when turning over the car.

yes, the spark plugs are wet. I can smell the gas. in 123 didn't check 4 didn't want to make you wait forever.

RippedReverend

oh, and it has 193,000 on it.

yes, timing belt was changed at 142,000 ( i know late but it was still like new )

and btw there are no mods done to this car it's bone stock with the exception of the headers bc the cat went bad last year and this is a Cali car if matters

ezone

No, that doesn't matter at this point. If the plugs are wet then it is flooded. Ummmmm Are the plugs the correct Denso or NGK for this car? PLEASE tell me you didn't stick some Bosch Platinums in there. Throw them away right now if you did.

Hold the gas pedal to the floor (pull the floormats out from under the pedal) and crank it.
It should try to fire as the fuel clears out.
Crank for no more than 15 seconds at a time, you don't want to overheat the starter. Let it sit for a minute between cranks.
Eventually it should fire up.

Drive the car for a good 15 minutes after it gets warmed up. Don't ever start the car, move it 10 feet, and shut it off. Always run it to operating temperature before shutting it off.

ezone

Also, it is probably due for another timing belt job, and since it is at 200k I would replace the t-belt tensioner pulley at the same time too.

RippedReverend

No, I had bosch plat for 50,000 miles.

It started! My god i bn working on this car for a week.

when it wouldn't start I did the spark test and there was no spark so I ordered the coils.

still didn't start after put new coils in. Then took the starter to auto zone they said it was bad so got a new one and put that in. still didn't start.

did all the other stuff in my opening post was stumped.

you tell me to hold down the pedal and with 3 tries it starts! Why?

I won't have to do this all the time will I?

tnx soooooooooooooooo much

ezone

You shouldn't have to do that unless something like this happens.
A flooded engine cranks differently than a non-flooded engine. It sounds weaker.
Good: RuhRuhRuhRuhRuhRuh
Flooded: WeeeWeeeWeeeWeeeWeeeWeee (starter isn't working as hard, low compression)

Holding the gas pedal to the floor puts the computer in "clear flood" mode.
It won't inject any fuel during engine cranking while in that mode.
That allows the excess fuel to get dried out a little bit (hopefully).
Some of this info is probably in your owners manual under "starting the engine" or something like that.

Seriously. I throw away Bosch plugs for a darn good reason. Get the correct Denso or NGK plugs.

RippedReverend

yes, I've thrown those away and I will be getting the ngk's tomorrow and will not be driving the car until they are in.

so the flood happened durning the test for no spark? hints the term wouldn't start due to flooding of gas.

ezone

Flooding (to me) means too much fuel or unburned/unburnable fuel, so much that it gets the plugs wet and the spark finds another path to ground somewhere besides through the spark gap.

The "hidden" or shrouded center electrode in most Bosch plats is certainly less than ideal for a good spark gap ionization, and are easily flooded.

What caused it to flood? Too many possibilities to guess, and the wrong plugs just added another thing to guess at.

One huge cause I see often, and what I said earlier: Don't ever start the car, move it 10 feet, and shut it off. Always run it to operating temperature before shutting it off.



Do you think it is ANY coincidence that I guessed at the Bosch plugs, and was right?

RippedReverend

No, coincidence. Just true knowledge from you. I take it you've figured this out some time before.

I was told this buy a mechanic also but I ignored it cause he didn't tell me why. He just threw them away it kind of pissed me off but I figured he was doing me a favor. That was out of an old 93 civic ex that got totaled. The sales pitch on the back of those things sounded great. No gapping is needed double you gas mi. ect.... ect... What'da crock of crap! bosh is srt8 garbage. Never will I again. I heard alot about NGK so I'll stick to these.

ezone

AutoZone will tell you they are the best plug they sell!
What they don't tell you is that "best" means their highest profit margin out of all the plugs they sell. They aren't in business to help you fix your car. They are in business to sell parts. At a profit.

Bosch has only like 20 different SKU#s to cover the thousands of different applications that other plug manufacturers make thousands of different plugs for. How correct can they possibly be?
I got more, but it would probably be lost unless you are deep into the technical end.


NGK PZFR6F-11 plugs would be correct for that car. They come pre-gapped at 1.1mm. Call your parts stores, they are easily available. Most big parts stores get stuff overnight too if they don't have them on-hand.


Another thing: If you have O2 sensor problems, that could lead to sparkplug fouling too. The PCM uses the O2 sensors to control fuel delivery (injector PW, mS).
Again here, use the OEM Denso or NTK sensors, not Bosch. I have found them in parts stores, in white boxes...and you have to search for them.

Ummmm the design of the headers may have a lot to do with how the O2 sensors react to changing engine conditions too. If the sensor is not in the exhaust stream of all 4 cylinders, then it will be trying to supply fuel to all cylinders based on what it sees from only 1 or 2 cylinders. Just a thought.

Get your old coils and put them back in, if it still runs then they weren't bad. Get your money back. Good luck.
I doubt the starter was bad, but it is too late for that.
What is the COST of those cheap plugs now?

RippedReverend

NGK'S prob. like 10.00

starter 128.00
plugs 95.00
total 223.00

Yea, I doubt the starter was bad since A.Z. told me it was I took a new one in desperate need. Doubt the coils are bad either. Sigh.............. Live and learn!

Well the cat went bad ah year ago. I couldn't afford 700.00 so I bought some cheap headers to wait for when I have to smog it plus tax time will be here. So the lights on bc there are no o2 sensors in at all. I usually do most things by myself but I do have a mechanic also when I need and he said the o2 sensors were ok out.

So what should I do? Put my o2 sensors back in and am ok? Or I need to ditch the headers and get a cat asap?

ezone

Was the cat problem just a P0420 code? I would have left it alone. That code just means the cat had lost efficiency.
If the cat was clogged and causing a loss of performance, that would be a different story.

Without any O2 sensors, the computer runs off of pre-programmed fuel and timing maps ONLY (known as "open-loop" operation). There is no "on the fly" corrections possible without the O2 sensors ("closed-loop" or "feedback" operation).

The computer needs the primary O2 sensor to accomplish this control over fuel corrections.
The secondary O2 sensor is used by the computer to monitor the catalytic converter efficiency, and the computer also uses it to control fuel under certain conditions.

An exhaust without any cat at all just stinks like an old lawnmower.
Causes me headaches.
Causes unnecessary HC, CO, CO2, and NOx emissions.
Causes air pollution.
Causes you to fail smog test.
Makes Al Gore cry.

I'm starting to think that if you hadn't spent all this money on the header and needless parts this week, you'd have the money for the cat already.
Only $500 here http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...OLD+%28SOHC%29

RippedReverend

yea, think it was like 420 or something it's been too long. Yea, prob. would have the money or close to it.

so do i even bother putting in the o2 sensors in the header?

ezone

P0420 is the only possible code for the cat, but not the only possible failure.

I would use the primary sensor at the very least. I would also evaluate where it will be located before I make that decision. I have no idea what your "header" looks like.
If it was located in only one out of four pipes, I would relocate it to the collector and adapt the wiring harness. But that's an option of mine. I want it to work properly, not just get around an emissions law.

tonyda-lost1

i was driving down the road when my ex just lost power i hit the gas nothing power was good and i costed to a stop . i thought fuel pump and filter did that still didnt star and no code so it turns out it was the distributor and coil the end

HELPinTexas

I have a 99 Honda Civic DX, 4cyl that did exactly as you said yours did......loosing power while moving. My mechanic has replaced the battery (was time for a change anyway), an extensive tune-up (it was needed, too), checked it for any codes and there was none, and last thing he put on was a distributor. All this was done trying to fix the stalling and it is STILL dying while in motion or sitting still or turning corners, etc. One more thing to note is that it WILL start back up, but it takes a few tries. He also checked gas flow and it was good. Any ideas on what I should do?