lilmexicanoboi

hey everyone, i am working on my brother's car right now and he has a 2001 civic ex. he thinks he blew a head gasket so im about to take the cylinder head off. im so close to pulling it off, but the damn intake manifold just wont pop off. according to this diagram from the service manual that i found online, there are 7 nuts and bolts holding it on. here is the picture from it:



i have taken off every single nut and bolt mentioned, even an extra one not mentioned where the bottom supporting plates are (there are two nuts on the passenger side plate), except for the one circled in red. i cant seem to reach it.

heres a pic i took of my "progress". just to give you guys a sense a direction, imagine you are sitting on the windshield facing the front of the car while looking down at the engine...

driver side bolt


passenger side bolt


i took off the top nuts as well (the long ones that look like they have built-in oversized washers) but i didnt take pictures of those.

here is the bolt that i cant get a grip on! grr! (the bottom center brass, or whatever that color is, one)



that middle one in the little crevice is the one i need to take out, right? or am i looking at the wrong one? if its the right one, can anyone tell me whats the best method to getting that last nut off? its a really tight space and i cant fit a wrench in there, let alone my own hand!

and also, can anyone give me any tips to pry apart the IM safely from the head once i get that bolt out? cuz even tho its only one nut holding it on, it seems like it doesnt want to pry open at ALL. are there more bolts? do i have to remove all 3 nuts shown in the last picture?

any help is appreciated. thanks

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

You have to get that nut off. You have no choice. I notice you even took the throttle body off of the intake. I just did this last week, I used a small 12 mm wrench and made baby turns with it. You really can't get at this nut from underneath. By the looks of it though you actually have 3 nuts holding the intake mani in place right now, unless the other two are just hanging out there. Look directly to the left and right of it and you will see 2 other nuts (1 should be a nut, the other a bolt).

Sorry, but go get a small 12 mil and little baby turns, it will come off. Go at it from the top.

I forgot to add, the mani will pretty well pop off all by itself when you get all the screws off. It's just sealed with rubber to the extension plate.

mr22508

Thats what I used... 12mm wrench with baby turns. It should break loose fairly easy. If you can, get the box side in there, make sure its a six point so you dont strip it, and wrap another wrench around that on and give it a good wrench, it should break loose.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

This was SUCh a fun job... I still don't have the car 100% put together as I need to put the splash shield back on the bottom lol... Stupid rain has been preventing me from doing anything.. so has the newborn.

lilmexicanoboi

thanks alot guys! ill be giving this another shot today. i was stressing about it all day yesterday. i guess 12mm with baby turns is the key. hmm. well ill keep you guys updated and let u guys know if i run across any other problems. thanks again.

in the meantime, since im going to have to release the bolt holding on the crankshaft pulley, anyone have any tips for that? i know you need the 50mm hex pulley holder thing, but its like $50 and it doesnt seem reasonable to spend that much on a one-time-use item (who knows when ill need it again). anyne have any alternatives?

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

No alternatives. It was 35 dollars here and it's the only way without a huge impact gun. And I mean huge. The manual will tell you you to remove the cam gear but don't do it. Let the machine shop worry about it if they want it off. If you Must remove it, loosen the bolt with your timing belt ON and the 50mm hex nut on the crank pulley, so you don't screw up the head.

The only other option that you have is to take the car to a shop before you start, get them to remove the crank pulley bolt and loosely put it back on for you so you can remove it when you get home.

Hope that helps. Be very careful and make sure your at TDC when you remove the timing belt.

baron340

iTrader: (4)

1. For the crank pulley bolt.. the easiest way to get it off is with an impact gun. Other than that, you have to use the holder tool.

2. You didn't need to pull the intake mani to get the head off. Pull the TB off, disonnect all vac hoses, unbolt the support brackets, either from the IM side or the block side.. then pull the head with it still attached. It's the easiest way to pull the head. If you are only doing a head gasket, it will save you a good hour of work.

lilmexicanoboi

thanks for the tips! ill try removing the camshaft pulley myself, but if i dont get it off within a few tries, then ill just leave it on and have the machine shop worry about it.

well i thought u had to use the holder tool in order for the impact gun to actually work, or else the impact gun will just turn the pulley without the holder...

i dont have to take the IM off?! omg thank god! ill try removing the head with it still on. however, if i see that its too much of a hassle, ill go back to trying to take off those nuts i missed. would i be able to take it to a machine shop with the IM still attached? i doubt it, but i wouldnt know...

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

You don't have to take it off. But maneuvering the head with it on is a bit more of a pain in the ***. It's up to you, I decided to take it off. I know a lot of people do leave it assembled though. One hint though, if you do leave it make double damn sure all the hoses and stuff from it are disconnected because if they aren't, your going to be standing there with the head in your hand and you won't be able to pull it out, which will get damn awkward damn fast. I think most of the hoses and stuff go into the throttle body but I know one goes into the intake itself.

The impact gun does not spin the pulley because it removes the bolt in an Impact kind of way instead of spin, it's hard to explain over the internet. It kind of hits the bolt repeatedly instead of spinning it like you would with a wrench.

Good luck man, this job was such a pain in the @ss... leave the cam gear unless you HAVE to take it off because you can damage the head if you remove it incorrectly.


Also: Be very careful when tightening anything to this IM, because it's plastic and cracks VERY easy.

lilmexicanoboi

well as you can see in the pics, i took the throttle body off already. i didnt take it out of the engine bay tho, i just moved it out of the way with most of the hoses still attached. hopefully that wont be such a big deal. im going to order a whole gasket set and they come with a gasket for the TB so ill just pop the new one back in. since i already took the TB off and i only have those 3 bolts/nuts holding on the intake manifold, then i might as well take it off. i would rather do a lil more work to take things off safely in the end than risk bending or breaking something. this is my first time doing this so i would hate for this to be a bad first experience. thats why i am taking so much precaution with everything. i am labeling everything with so i dont forget to attach anything when i put everything back.

also you mentioned one hose goes into the intake. my brother has an AEM intake and the only hose i remember seeing is the one coming out of the valve cover that goes directly into the AEM intake tubing. is that the hose you are referring to?

and i think i know what you mean with the whole impact gun thing. u mean like it is more of a hammering action that it a "wrenching" action? cuz i saw a write up on here on how to remove the timing belt and the poster put a link to his youtube video where he showed how he used the impact gun but the pulley kept spinning with it. he had to revert to using the 50mm holder with a breaker bar and two extensions to the wrench he used so he can have enough leverage. but ill give it a shot without the holder. if not, ill just use the holder and the impact gun, and if that doesnt work, expect me to come back here, but im pretty sure i can find a way. i have access to who knows how many tools here (except for the 50mm hex holder) so im sure i can fab something up

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

If you look through the driver side wheel well you can see a hose that runs into the side of the IM. I forgot to unplug it so i was trying to get the manifold out with it still attached.. Which did not work very good lol... Make sure you disconnect this hose (I'm not quite sure what it does lol) Use the pulley holder tool, a jack stand, and a breaker bar. You won't get the bolt off without it, I assure you.

lilmexicanoboi

that would be the PCV valve and i already took that out im not sure what it does either, all i know is that it told me to remove that hose in the service manual lol. that thing is the bible of all maintenance and repairs, i swear

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like your ready to rock and roll. Have you removed the alternator yet? That was fun, mine was all seized in there and stuff.

lilmexicanoboi

yes i have... kinda. i took off the bolts and everything, but its still in the engine compartment lol. it seemed kinda stuck at first, but since it didnt get in the way for anything else i did after that, i didnt give it too much thought. ill take it out next time tho lol.

unfortunately, i wasnt able to work on the car today. i had some family come over and we had a bbq. i couldnt pass that up haha. but ill finish up with the intake manifold tomorrow morning and see what else i can do from there. i still need the crank pulley holder for the next step (removing the timing belt), the head gasket set (obviously), and a torque wrench for putting everything back together. i also gotta take the head to a machine shop. *whew* i got alot of things to do still before im done :/

baron340

iTrader: (4)

You don't have to pull the alternator either. You do have to pull it to change the T-belt though. The service manual tells you to do a lot of things that are really not necessary if you are only changing the HG. Trust me.. I've done this a time or two. It's much easier to pull the head without removing the IM. The IM itself isn't heavy either, so don't worry about the weight. Once you have the head off then you can unbolt the manifold. There should be 4 hoses attached to it. 2 on the drivers side and 2 on the firewall side. Just as a side note, most of the gaskets can be reused without issues. Valve cover, intake manifold gaskets, throttle body, exhaust manifold.. all can be reused as long as they are in decent shape.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Well, if your in there anyway you might as well change the T belt. I changed all 3 belts when I did my head gasket. A little early as I only have 80k miles on the car. It's nice to know all these steps aren't necessary, in case I have to do it again

lilmexicanoboi

Ok so i just took off the IM a few hours ago and it actually wasnt that hard. i had to use an open-end wrench tho, not a regular wrench with a 12mm socket. also, it only turns out that i had to remove the middle nut from the ones that you circled red in the pics above. i had to remove the fuel rail for that tho which i did not know and made my life a whole lot easier once i did

but now all thats left to do it remove the timing belt, but i need the 50mm hex pulley holder tool that i cant find anywhere around here for sale :/

anyone wanna part out with theirs if you have one? hook a brotha up lol. (im serious tho)

and i think i am going to have to replace all 3 belts like you did. i took the belts off and they are all cracked.

p.s. something fun happened today. apparently the person who put the wheels back on last overtightened the lug nuts so they were STUCK on. not even our impact wrench at its highest/fastest setting could take them off. but when we were trying to take them off with the impact wrench, we were using a 1/2" to 3/8" converter and the attachment snapped! then we tried using a heavy duty wrench with a regular socket with the lug key inside the socket and spraying some WD-40 on the lugs. i had my dad jump on the wrench handle to break the bolts loose. the wrench worked perfectly before, but after just 4 lugs (1 wheel), the gears inside the wrench gave out so now its worthless. luckily the wrench was craftsman so we can go get it replaced for free so yea... that was the highlight of MY day haha.

tomorrow will be another day. but i have school tomorrow so i doubt ill be able to work on the car for long. but we'll see.

but just a reminder, does anyone seriously have the pulley holder tool i need? can i borrow it? or buy it off you?

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

OOOOPS! sorry i dident even see the fuel rail in place there. So you only have to remove the 1 nut not all three??? hmm... strange.. I don't think my mani would have come off had I not removed those That puller tool is something you should have ready before you start the job because it's often an order item. Your local honda dealer might have one though, try there. I got lucky and found one at Canadian Tire of all places for 35 bucks (score).

lilmexicanoboi

well i took off all the rest of the bolts first before that last one so maybe you had some other bolts holding ur mani in place rather than just those. but im sure its just that one bolt you need to remove. the threads for the other two are attached to the mani itself so once you take out the manifold, you can see you can still put those two other nuts back in their original place directly on the mani.

i know i should have bought the puller ahead of time, but at first i didnt think i was going to do this job myself. i thought my dad was going to tell a trusted mechanic he knows to come over and help us out, but he never came. so once i started everything, i didnt wanna stop and i completely forgot about the timing belt. i have been going straight off the service manual step by step and i didnt realize it mentioned (nor did i remember about) the timing belt. i have never taken off a timing belt so i dont know how to do it. all i know is from what the service manual tells me. its pretty clear on what to do so i dont think i should have TOO much problem with it.

im gonna try to call or go to the honda dealer early tomorrow before class in the afternoon and see if they have that tool in stock.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Good luck on getting the tool. Have you tried without it yet?

lilmexicanoboi

yea we tried it with just an impact gun. no cigar. the held the pulley in place so it wouldnt spin, we put wd-40, and we set the impact at the highest setting and it didnt budge. i think we might need to put another heavy duty wrench to shame by jumping on it like we did with the lugs...

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Atta boy I have a cheap 1/2" 3' breaker bar that got it no problem. That's all I used

mr22508

Yeah it took my whole 225 lb. frame, a snap on heavy duty breaker bar and a steel 3 foot pole extension, arms and legs wrapped around it bouncing to get mine off!!!

lilmexicanoboi

hmm i think it might be better if i get a breaker bar actually. idk if i should just use a long piece of metal piping on a wrench. i know it might void the warranty on the wrench (if it has any) but itll work... hopefully

whats the longest socket extension on the market? cuz i dont think u can fit a 3' breaker bar in the wheel well so im assuming u used extensions to reach the pulley, right?

lilmexicanoboi

jesus christ! its gonna take like 2 of me to match that! im not even doubting this one will be that tought to get out...

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

I weight in a good 205 myself and I used ALL my body weight, no extension pipe though. Picture this, I had my recycling bin laying on the ground and a jack stand on top of it holding on to my breaker bar with 2 1 foot extensions on them. I bet the neighbors were laughing their asses off at me. I had about a 30 degree bend and flex in the breaker bar when I finally decided to give it all my body weight, so I can just imagine how much the breaker bar bent. I was debating on doing it because I thought I was going to break it, but i said F&*$ it and gave it with everything I had. Luckily, the breaker bar held together and the bolt loosened off. I had to do this three times to break the bolt free, I heard POP, POP, and POP 3 times. It's absolutely insane how much torque is on that bolt. GOOD LUCK

It's actually better to use a few shorter extensions because they will flex a lot less giving you more torque on the bolt

LOL Now all I can picture is you humping a pole

lilmexicanoboi

oh ok so you used 2 1-foot extensions. thats what i meant. i didnt mean like another extension on the breaker bar's handle, i meant an extension on the 1/2" drive to the socket... if that makes any sense...

HAHAHA! thats most likely exactly what it will look like! just imagine a monkey hanging off a branch while the brach bounces up and down.

lilmexicanoboi

ok so quick question. since the whole head is coming off, what kinds of things should i check for since the head gasket is blown? so far im going to get the cylinder head refaced. should i get a valve job as well? what other things should i take into consideration?

also, can i just take the cylinder head to the machine shop with all the rocker arms, valve springs, valves, and everything else attached? or would i have to remove those and put them back myself?

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Let the machine shop remove all that stuff... I would not really mess with the head too much by myself Just take a look at the pistons and stuff make sure there is nothing too obviously wrong. If any of the head gasket is stuck to the block clean it off... very carefully.

lilmexicanoboi

lol its bad enough i gotta take apart the whole engine bay on my own, i wouldnt wanna mess with something as delicate as the valves.

so what other areas/things would be affected due to a blown head gasket or, as i just recently found out online that its a possibility, a cracked head? would i need a valve job? what not-so-obvious areas would i need at to look for damage?

i know this thread is going a tad bit off topic, but i prefer to stay on this thread rather than make a new one. who would i talk to to get the title of this thread changed?