EatingSpam

Hi,

As we all know the OBD code listed is the "P0401 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Flow Insufficient Detected". But what you dont know is that I have just completed a motor swap. The motors are both 1.7L Civic motors and the new motor (which we thought was the same Thanks Auto wreckers) are slightly different.

The passenger side of the block on the old(2004 LX) motor had the EGR valve on it and the new motor(2003 1.7L not sure what civic it came from) did not....

So we swapped the ends and have been working out the bugs since. We have 1 code left,the one that I have listed.

The threads that I have found are as follows....

This one really worries me.

DIY Fix for all that had the P0401 code - Honda-Tech ... good but I dont think that is my problem

Also gives me hope but I also dont think it is my problem

Fixing EGR blockage leading to DTCs P0401 and P1491 Great Write-up but I am still worried not my problem

This one thread is getting close and I am hoping this is all I will need to do

I am located in Canada and the new motor is from the US, I also don't know what else could be different.

Please help... need some advice..

Thanks

Colin

PS. I am not sure what is exactly wrong with the old motor, just I was told by my old friend(mechanic) that it was done.

EatingSpam

Suggestions???

Could honda have made 2 different heads for the same block? one with the porting for the egr and one without.....

The 03 motor had the holes in the block they were just capped with an end cap.

The EGR... I removed it and reved the motor at high rpm and it didnt really move..... I covered the intake side(jammed a rag into it) should it be sucking in air? the exhaust side seems to push out a lot of air....

Thanks Colin

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

egr valves did not come on certain years and models, i think all ex and 04-05 had it, but not older lx/dx.

EatingSpam

but would honda have made a different head?

I filled the intake manifold side of the EGR housing with throttle body cleaner... it is slowly leaking away...

I just think that maybe the ports for the EGR on the intake manifold could be blocked because they were never used.

I took the 04 motor apart and now know what to look for soo now I am going to take the 03 motors intake manifold off and see where the issue is.

pulloff

Not entirely Civic related, but a side note... I did an engine swap in a Subaru, and the Manual Transmission for that model year had EGR, but the Automatic didn’t... It could be a similar deal with certain models years of Civics. Good luck.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

the lx/dx and ex heads are completely different yes. but i think the heads are the same whether you have egr or not.

EatingSpam

Who can spot the difference between these 2 intake manifold gaskets?

Anyways that was my issue all a long. 2 things need to be changed if the motor did not have an egr mounted on the passenger side of the block.

1. remove end cap and install egr mount.

2. change intake manifold gasket.

That's it.

Thanks to all with your help.

Colin

PS. the difference in the 2 gaskets are, a single hole on the bottom gasket(their are 2 holes side my side, one is for the manifold bolt and the other is for the egr port through the head)

kenbahn

This P0401 code applies to me. I got an 03 block swapped into an 04 Civic DX.
So, what is meant in item #1? remove what end cap, on the passenger side engine block? i'm amateur mechanic and car is at work with my girl. any input is helpful, and a photo of the end cap would be way helpful.
thanks ya'llses.

kenbahn

and what gasket is that you used to make the fix? is that what i'll need to be able to mount up an EGR valve?
i think i get it: that i'll put on this 2 hole gasket (which i see has other holes next to the middle intakes) and mount up the egr somewhere round there. i still don't have the car in front of me yet today.
thanks all.

ezone

I'd guess the wrong intake gasket was used.

kenbahn

well, not "wrong" intake gasket because the 03 block now installed didn't have an EGR, right? but i can install an EGR by fitting an 04-05 gasket and plugging in an EGR, thus satisfying the ECU and then shutting off the CEL so i can pass inspection. Yeah? that's what that other hole is for in the gasket in the lower part of EatingSpam's picture right? i'm amateur so this all helps. thank you.

ezone

Doesn't matter what used to be attached to the replacement engine, you need to change over enough parts off the original to keep the computer happy.

In the shop if a used replacement engine isn't exactly the same, whatever is different gets stripped off and swapped. Sometimes strip it down to a bare block and head and start over if that's what has to be done. Each situation may be different..

It looks like in 2003 only the EX and HX used EGR, but in 04 all the 1.7 gasoline versions used it.

That's what the extra hole was for, it's the EGR passage. If you stuck the wrong gasket on then the hole between head and manifold would be blocked off, causing the P0401 insufficient flow code.

Assuming you installed the parts that have and hold the EGR valve on the end of the head. If you didn't install the EGR valve and water passage casting, you have a lot more work to do LOL.


HTH

AbdulShaat

Wait, so for the intake manifold gasket, would I have to buy a 03 gasket or a 04 for the 03 engine going into the 04 civic?

ezone

If your original engine has an EGR valve, you need to make sure the new (used) engine also has an EGR valve that works... If you don't, the computer will not be happy.

If you have to transfer your parts to the new (used) engine you will need an intake gasket that has the extra hole for the EGR passage......which would be your original 04 engine configuration (use the 04 gasket)

(most of the time the metal and/or rubber gaskets can be reused without problems)

AbdulShaat

Thanks Ezone, if you could give me call when you have a chance to talk about it. I'm a little confused I'd greatly appreciate it. Thank you!

ezone

Sorry, I'm not into phone calls. Try to keep this on the forum so others can benefit from reading your information.
I may turn your posts into a new thread depending on how this turns out.

Are you the original poster of this thread, "EatingSpam"?
Are you in the US or Canada?


I need to figure out what are you working with...

There are two basic versions of the 1.7 engine (D17A1 or D17A2), with other little differences among the years.

What year is your car? What engine type?
What year is the engine you want to install? What engine type?

AbdulShaat

The engine is a 2003 Honda Civic lx.
The car it's inside is a 2004 Honda Civic lx.

Did the 03 civic lx have an egr?
If not what the fix. I understand I can swap the intake gasket off the 04
Motor and put it on the 03 engine.

ezone

Are you in Canada?

Do you know what the EGR valve looks like and where it is located on the engine?

The engine wiring harness, is it the original 2004 wiring that came in the car, or did it come with the 2003 engine?


You have to equip the new engine just like the original engine. That means if your original engine had EGR and the new one does not, you have to swap it (and its water passage housing) to the new engine....plus: You have to swap the rest of the parts that have to do with EGR to the new engine in order that the system can function, that means making the passages open for EGR flow (correct gasket) and the harness has to have a connector for the valve so the computer can operate it.

AbdulShaat

Yes, the egr valve is on the left side of the engine. I have the wiring harness from the car that the new engine is going into in use now.

ezone

Your 03 engine has the EGR valve installed, bolted down, and connected
You are using the 04 wiring harness

It should work if you have the correct gasket with the extra hole in it
AND the EGR distribution channels (in the injector mounting plate) have to be clear of carbon buildup.

Do you have the gasket from the 04 installed between the head and injector plate?
Has all the carbon buildup been scraped out of the plate?



That's the right side. Left and right of any vehicle or part are always determined as you are sitting in the drivers seat

AbdulShaat

I had the 03 gasket on.
I'm going to swap the gaskets tomorrow.
And the water housing gasket(with the thermostat)

AbdulShaat

I don't know how to post pictures here in the forums

ezone

If you have an EGR valve bolted to it now, you must already have the correct water housing installed.

The wrong housing would have no place to mount an EGR valve.
The gasket for the housing is the same on either version.

Word: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/fa...b3_attachments


Basically what I do is.....load pics to an image hosting site (tinypic, imigur, etc),
then grab (copy) the direct URL of the pic .... (the one with .jpg or whatever file type on the end)

come back here and click the picture icon above the text reply box ()
a window pops up,
now paste the URL in the box
and click OK.
Now it's inserted in your post.

You can do this with almost any image on the internet.

AbdulShaat

So the housing is fine, I just need to change the intake manifold gasket to the 04. And I should be good to go?

ezone

If there's an EGR valve bolted to it, it is correct


Sounds like it. Compare the gaskets once you have it out, the one you need has the extra holes.

AbdulShaat

Okay, I will check out the intake manifold gasket. And see if it doesn't have the extra hole I'll swap it out and it should make my cel happy after right

kenbahn

I got my own EGR to erase! I think i have an easy fix, can i get advice. Put a 2003 d17 into the '04 civic and neglected the EGR; there is not one on the '03 engine so the '04 ECU is looking for one and throwing the code/CEL is on.
Can i just plug in an '01-'03 ECU for d17 automatic transmission? is there much else i need to consider? anybody got one to get rid of?
thanks in upstate ny.

ezone

Nope. The wiring, O2/AF sensors, power relay to run the AF sensor.... and computers are vastly different. Then after you figure all that out, you'd still have to get the PCM programmed before it would run the engine.

Just install the necessary parts to have a working EGR system and get it over with. You managed to stuff an entire engine in, this little crap should be easy now.

You're gonna need the right intake manifold gasket, the one with the extra holes (if it's not already on it---- maybe 2 hours of work?), and the end housing on the head that holds the EGR valve (if it's not already on it).

kenbahn

thanks for fast response ezone!
there's a wiring outlet for egr plug-in. there's also a black (plastic/resin?) cover on the end of the block at this wiring outlet. is that thing i wanna plug-in an egr, which i no longer have.

kenbahn

and what are the parts and how to install a working egr system? what's the housing look like? i don't think it's there bc i also gotta get a different gasket with the egr valve cut out.
i'm a hack mechanic - thanks for spelling out things simple style.