LaiBaka

Hi guys,
I have a 2003 Civic EX Auto, 80k miles.

My problem is that my car at a cold start will sometimes bog down.
What happens is that if I drive my car within the first 5 minutes of startup there is a chance that it will suddenly start shaking violently, I see the RPM drop very low as it's about to stall (at that point, even if I step on the gas I get no response, it keeps shaking. This was dangerous a couple of times on the road). There has been 3 occasions the car actually stalled, but was ok to start up immediately after

So currently, what I do is let my car warm up for about 5 minutes before I drive (sometimes it will be doing the same thing while warming up and parked either in neutral or park).

I must add that it is winter time now in Massachussetts (never drove this car in summer yet)
But I think it is not temperature related. Sometimes I may drive the car around for a while, stop at the grocery store for like 30 min. I might get the same issue just from letting the car stand for 30 min.

Things I have tried:
- ECU relearn
- Tune up: Changed Spark Plugs, Air Filter
- Changed all Fluids


Also must add that I have no CEL on, so it is hard for a mechanic to diagnose, and I usually can't reproduce the problem on demand.

Sorry for the long write up and appreciate any help!

LaiBaka

Bump!
Desperately need some help or advice =/

Thanks!

DieMaster

iTrader: (5)

check that u dont have a vacume leak some where. also check the codes anyway. some make a code w/o turning on the light.

another this is sometimes the crank/ cam sensors go bad or intermidiant. this will cause the simtoms your describing. they are the only sensors the ECU cant replicate and thus cant run the engine w/o them.

try the easy stuff first.

bobsagator

iTrader: (13)

Try cleaning the throttle body and IACV. Gearbox had a great write up around here somewhere. Relatively easy to do.

sicklycivic

Hello all I've had something a bit similar on my 2003 EX Auto. On mine it seems to happen mostly after driving for a bit (with no problem, even on a very cold morning), then parking, then leaving again. It'll bog to low RPMs, no response to gas pedal etc. After a few minutes, it's completely back to normal. Has about 75K miles.

Example:
Drive 20 miles on a cold morning, no problems
Park for 1 hour. (below 30 degrees)
Start again == problem.

It's never happened on a cold start, only after driving a bit, parking then driving again.

Someone suggested water in gas, but I don't buy it just yet.

sicklycivic

Got it to happen a couple times with my scanguage plugged in... all the parameters looked pretty normal while it was happening, though the timing advance number bounced around quite a bit. That seems like it could point to the crank sensor DieMaster mentioned. But why does it ONLY happen on a warmish restart and for only a minute or two?

sicklycivic

yes?

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

did you clean the throttle body and iac sensors yet and then do the ecu reset and idle learn.

itsmisterguy

I registered so that i can post my comment and I know that I might be totally off on this, but i was doing some reading online and found that the EGR Valve has very similar characteristics.

"The EGR valve, or Exhaust Gas Recirculation valve, is a vacuum controlled valve which allows a specific amount of your exhaust back into the intake manifold. This exhaust mixes with the intake air and actually cools the combustion process. Cooler is always better inside your engine. The exhaust your EGR valve recirculates also prevents the formation of Nitrogen related gases. These are referred to as NOX emissions, and are a common cause for failing emissions testing. Unfortunately, your EGR valve can get stuck, causing NOX gases to build up. You'll know if your EGR valve is stuck or malfunctioning because your car will experience symptoms like rough idle and bucking on accelertaion."
Quote taken from
http://autorepair.about.com/od/gloss..._egr-valve.htm

I havent had a problem like this before, but if i did, ill try to change this and see if the problem goes away.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

is it easy to change that? and how much is the part

itsmisterguy

I was looking to do my tune up and had heard about that "EGR Valve" so i wanted to know what it does.
I found that out today and checked at our AutoZone.
The value for this part on a 2003 Honda Civic Ex 1.7L Vtech is about $139. Since i found out that i dont need one, i wont change it.

sicklycivic

Well MY problem SEEMS to have gone away. Even though i'm #1 skeptic about such things, I tried a little HEET and a tank of BP Ultimate.

I don't think it was quite the same problem as LaiBaka, the OP, though as mine NEVER happened on a cold start, only after driving a while, parking at least 20min or so, then starting again.

However I have new problem -- the heat stopped working on the way home the other day

Interesting about the EGR, but in my case there is/was absolutely no throttle response until it cleared itself. It would just chug around at about 800 rpm for about 2 minutes, then *bam* completely normal. Plus wouldn't that tend to light the CEL eventually?

sicklycivic

Well here's a bit of an update:

Now with warmer weather it does it pretty consistantly and I played with my ScanGuage one day and determined:

I didn't get a chance to try a cold start, but on warmish restart:

Roughish idle until water temp reaches about 145, then engine bogs completely, almost stalls until temp reaches about 155 then idle is smooth and car runs 100% fine.

I read that the EVAP Purge solenoid is supposed to do something around 148-158 degrees, such as possibly dumping a bunch of fuel vapors in the intake causing possibly it to run rich. I tried disconnecting the plug to the valve and pulling off one of the hoses, but no difference.

What else does the computer do during warmup that could cause this?

sicklycivic

Took it to a place. They noticed it was burning loads of oil (which I had somehow missed) because of a bad valve oil seal (!). There was soot all over the exhaust and EGR system (and my garage floor!). BUT after $2600 for new valve seals, head gasket, timing belt, EGR, spark plugs, cleaning intake etc, it's still doing exactly the same thing!!

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

omg wow. did they do the idle learn lol? and is the aic valve cleaned out.take it back to the shop and make them fix it then. obvoiusly you paid them to fix the problem and they didnt. maybe they just pretended to do the work?

sicklycivic

[deleted]

sicklycivic

Can the AIC cause trouble while driving though? It does about the same thing whether it's sitting in park or driving around.

What farm and fleet is that?

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

urbana, il farm and fleet. the IAC can cause weird things to happen while driving or idle. since when driving, you take your foot off the gas completely and the iac has to take over to keep the engine running (since the throttle plate is closed). clean that out for sure and reset the idle again. i bet its just clogged IAC valve.

sicklycivic

I managed to videotape my scanguage while it was bogging today.

I have the scanguage set to display MAP, IGN, water temp and RPM. I'm not sure exactly what the MAP and IGN numbers represent.

Drove 15 minutes on town streets, 35 mph max.
Parked about 20 minutes.

Restarted. At first the numbers look about right --

MAP 4.5 IGN 8 WT 155 RPM 820

after about two minutes the IGN drops like a rock to about -5 (though it eventually hits -14), the RPM drops to about 400 and the car starts shaking. the MAP goes up to about 13.

After about 15 seconds of this, the engine revs up to about 1200 RPM then begins to bog again, this time even longer.

Once recovered, the car drives 100% normal.

The above was all done without touching the gas at all, but if I had tried to drive it would have gone a little ways sort of normal, then without warning there would be no power and it would start bogging.

Can the IAC cause trouble while you're accelerating? I'll definately tell them to look at it when i take it back yet again tomorrow.

The biggest question I have is what factors influence the ECU's choice of ignition timing? Could a malfunctioning sensor cause this without setting a CEL?

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

iac may cause problems when pressing gas yes, since if it stays open when it should be closed, you will have more air than the ecu thinks you have going to the engine. check all your vacuum lines too. and finally look into getting a whole new throttle body. maybe the tps is having problems.

sicklycivic

Well they replaced the MAP sensor and it did seem better yesterday but I haven't really put it to the test yet. But at least after having it 3 days they only charged me $40!

sicklycivic

Well it went back to its old tricks so we went and traded it for a MINI Cooper which we liked 10,000 times better anyway.

khmer

I had this problem this morning. At first the check engine light came on. I remembered I have to remove the battery cable for 10 minute and because I had remove the air filter box and sensor. So the check engine light was reset. When I took it for a test drive it stalled a couple of times. I noticed every time step on the gas and release the idle goes below the line and almost stalls. I took the car home and check the fuse, battery cable,air box, while the engine was running. Within ten minutes the car was operating fine. I think the ECU was relearning itself. I have no idea why this happens. This was the second time it happened to me. The first time was when i left the stereo on for an hour and the car needed a jump start. I replaced the battery and it still caused the vehicle to stall. All of a sudden the problem went away. If someone can explain this phenomena, it would be awesome.

mayorz

Hello Guys!

because I am also planning to clean my car's throttle body and IAC valve based on the DIY , today I had five minutes and deassembled the filter box just to take a look to TB, to see what is it at all - before I have never seen it - and get clue that how many effort would be needed to perform the cleaning. It seemed not so difficult. Then I wiped a bit the inside parts of the TB what I hit, then I put back the filter box. I thought that will do the comlete cleaning tomorrow when have more time ...

But when I sit into the car, and switched the ignition, recognized the Check Engine lamp on the consol! I really do not understand the reason of the lamp! The car works well, the idle is good but the lamp is on!
After I tried the reset the ECU because expected that we have only temporarly failure and a restet will help. So I disconnected the battery for more then 1 minute, than back and switched the ignition. But the lamp is still illuminated!

Could you give me some hints what could I do wrong?
And give me confirmation that I did the ECU reset properly.

Thank you very much for your help!

Regards
Zsolt

mayorz

Meanwhile I fonund the bug. The oxygen sensor was not plugged completly into the box filter...

mayorz

In the weekend I have taken out the throttle body and cleand it together with the IAC valve based on the DIY found here in this webpage. Maybe the idle has became a little bit smoother.

But when I cleaned them recognized a quite strange thing. Between the throttle plate and the main bore of the throttle housing was smeared some kind of "gray paint".

Do you have clue what the hell is it???




I have read in an article (http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/56...scription.html) that some manufacturer are using that kind of pre-coating to minimize the idle airflow shift. But this coating on my TB does not seem as if it would be done by the manufacturer, rather done by home-made!

Thanks!

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

that black stuff is normal yes. kinda like a seal for the plate. i rubbed mine off while cleaning it and havent noticed a difference tho...

Unevolved

Yeah, mine doesn't have that coating anymore.

And I did the exact thing you did the other day. I had my airbox off, and when I put it back on, the CEL came on. I hadn't reconnected the IAT (intake air temperature) sensor, that little sensor on the right side of the airbox right above the throttle body.

Jimbo79

Hey! Did they ever find the problem???? i have the same thing, i have a Honda Civic 03 60K miles

From LaiBaka :

2003 Honda Civic EX Auto Stalling/Bogging/Rough
Hi guys,
I have a 2003 Civic EX Auto, 80k miles.

My problem is that my car at a cold start will sometimes bog down.
What happens is that if I drive my car within the first 5 minutes of startup there is a chance that it will suddenly start shaking violently, I see the RPM drop very low as it's about to stall (at that point, even if I step on the gas I get no response, it keeps shaking. This was dangerous a couple of times on the road). There has been 3 occasions the car actually stalled, but was ok to start up immediately after

So currently, what I do is let my car warm up for about 5 minutes before I drive (sometimes it will be doing the same thing while warming up and parked either in neutral or park).

I must add that it is winter time now in Massachussetts (never drove this car in summer yet)
But I think it is not temperature related. Sometimes I may drive the car around for a while, stop at the grocery store for like 30 min. I might get the same issue just from letting the car stand for 30 min.

Things I have tried:
- ECU relearn
- Tune up: Changed Spark Plugs, Air Filter
- Changed all Fluids


Also must add that I have no CEL on, so it is hard for a mechanic to diagnose, and I usually can't reproduce the problem on demand.

Sorry for the long write up and appreciate any help!
Last edited by LaiBaka; 02-15-2008 at 10:51 AM.

rottenburrito

i'm actually having a similar problem. my girlfriends 1998 civic lx with 175k miles got the CE light on the other week.

heres the symptoms:

on the first crank it rough idles for about 5-10 seconds then it is smooth afterwards, even driving it nothing feels different, just a little loss of power and a significent loss of mpg. on the second crank it rough idles a little harder but only for about 5 seconds, then everything is fine. it said it was cylinder 1 misfire, so I changed the spark plugs and it came back on. i then changed the spark wires and now it has back on again.

I checked the CE light again and it still says cylinder 1 misfire and now it says the number 1 reason for it is because a "blocked EGR valve passage". i've read that it's located below the air filter box but i wanted to respond here before i go and take it off. if anyone has pictures it would be greatly appreciated.

thanks tons