DannyK35

Original post:

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...ance-help.html


Okay, so I have been in Seattle since December so I'm not near my civic. Before I left I had this problem, it never got resolved. The car sat in a garage for a few months, so when I started it up there was no CEL on/flashing. I took it to a Honda dealer, they checked it out and observed the same problems (loss of power, weird rattling noise around 3k rpms, deep/low sound when accelerating, low gas mileage, everything mentioned in the old thread).

So I got charged from them to tell me nothing, aside from asking if I wanted to have my fuel tank dropped to check there. No thanks.

I was in Chicago for a little in May so I took the car for a while, just tested it to see if I could get the CEL on. I punched it, etc, and it came on within 30 min of driving. Headed straight to AutoZone to get the codes:

P0302: misfire cylinder 2
P0301: misfire cylinder 1
P0300: multiple random misfires

Great. Nothing I didn't already know. I don't know what the hell to do. Honda ran diagnostics, compression tests, all that good stuff....and again, no answer.

I am going to be in Chicago coming 9/5-9/11 and I want to get this fixed.

Seriously guys, if anyone has any ideas, jump in. I don't think it's realistic that all 4 injectors are dead, I'm sure I can pick some up from someone on this site if necessary. But I don't think that is going to remedy this.


Help!

DannyK35

anybody?

flotsamm

iTrader: (1)

I have this problem, but it seems to happen less now since I switched gas stations. I would get the same codes every couple or days or sometimes a week would go by. I ran Chevron mid-grade since I bought it in 2002 up until about 6 months ago. I tested the fuel pressure, tried new gas cap, fuel injector cleaner, new plugs and still got the codes. I switched to 76 gas brand, and so far so good. I got the codes twice in 6 months. I can live with that, since my car seems to run fine otherwise. 76 brand is an ethenol mix base. Try it, cant hurt.

when I looked at my Helms manual they say a lot of the misfire codes are from low fuel pressure. What could mean your fuel pump is weak or you might have clogged fuel filter. If you run a fuel pressure test, it'll tell you if its within spec. If not then this might be the problem.

BiH

Any updates yet?

Did you replace the injectors?

DannyK35

Well I finally got around to this so here is a status update:

I took the car to Nal's, which is a respected import repair shop in Chicago, last week. I can honestly say that these guys are good, no BS'ing, spoke at length with my mechanic about potential problems (not that I didn't know of them already).

Compression tests were fine, crank angle tests were fine. Hell, even my timing belt still has 50% of it's life.

Same codes of misfires on cylinder 1 and 2, and an OLD code showing O2 sensor not being up to par.

So they moved the coils from 1 and 2 to 3 and 4 to test it, still no luck. I told them to keep the car and drive it/beat it up so as to see if that will show any updates.


I understand what the problems could be, as do they. Bottom line is that this issue is a friggin' enigma and I just want to get it fixed. I have a long drive back to Seattle coming up and I don't want to end up dead on the side of the road in Montana because of this.

Long live 7th Gen!

jackoncruzpr

I have the exact same issues with my girlf's 01 civic. Im gonna tag your thread to keep an eye on it. It gets P0300 301 302 303 304.

So far Ive replaced the spark plugs with new NGK's and cleaned the IACV and the TB. I have a fuel filter on order and Im going to the check the valve clearances this weekend. I figure its a fuel issue because 4 injectors wont go bad all at once. The car will stumble on cold start if you turn it on quickly......if you let the car run the pump before you sart it for about 15 secs it wont stumble. maybe fuel pressure needs to build up.

Ill keep you posted as to what I discover.

DannyK35

(not so much of an) update:

Spoke with the guys at the shop last evening. They've been driving my ride around for the past week to pick up parts, etc for up to 30 min at a time. Coil packs were switched last week and since then the CEL has yet to resurface. Car is running just fine for them.

Compression test/crank angle/valves are all within spec.

However, they did tell me that they checked the gaps of my plugs and basically whomever put them in last time just took them out of the box and threw them in. Gaps were way off, but still that shouldn't be the cause of all this crap (the reason I say this is b/c this problem started before I even had the plugs put in). So they gapped them correctly, that's the only thing they've had to do (aside from switching around coils to test).

Again not much of an update, just figured I'd share.

jackoncruzpr

Thanks for sharing. Here is mu update:

Took fuel pump assembly off and the fuel filter. Pick up ccreen looked OK. I took some carb cleaner to it and cleane dout some varnish it had on it. I dissasembled the pump and took off the main filter. I was able to blow air through it rather easily so that tells me it doesnt need ot be replaced. Im going to check my valve adjustments tomorrow and if thats not the problem then I think its got to be either a weak fuel pump or a bad pressure regulator.

I need to do a fuel pressure test but i cant find an adapter to go into the stock fuel line. Ii foun done online but its almost 50 bucks. More than my pressure tester itself.

So thats where my issue stands.

DannyK35

Well I needed the car to do some errands around the city and suburbs, so the shop cleared the CEL and told me to take it out and drive around so they could determine the issues.

CEL went back on after about 20 min of highway driving, and I put on about 150 miles during the weekend. I took it to autozone yesterday to get a scan and here's the list of codes:

- PO301 misfire cylinder 1
- PO302 misfire cylinder 2
- PO303 misfire cylinder 3
- PO300 random cylinder misfire
- PO420 Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold
------------------------------------------------------------------
This is really pissing me off. I expected the cylinder 1 and 2 misfires, but not the rest.

jackoncruzpr

Hmmmm. Your cat is probably gone by now man. Are you losing coolant and not sure where its going?

On my issue with my girlfs car i was. I figured it is a bad head gasket. I used some of that headgasket repair stuff you buy in a bottle and add to your cooling system. For now the problem seems to have gone away.

Im looking at getting another engine rather than doing a head gasket repair. A engine with about 75-80K miles will rum me about 700 bucks. Head gasket repair a grand or so. Might as well do a new engine and while its out throw in a water pump and new timing belt.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

did you check the plugs, 02 sensors, coolant and oil levels and quality?

DannyK35

^^^

plugs were not gapped correctly but they fixed that. O2 sensors are okay, as well as coolant and oil levels.

Vac leak test, compression tests were done and came back fine.

Took it back in last Thurs so I'll find out more soon.

DannyK35

Well, I have given up.

I have left the car w/the guys at Nal's (great repair shop in Chicago) for almost two months to let them do their thing and figure out what was wrong. Bottom line, they can't find the issue.

Crank angle is fine, compression tests are fine, replaced coil packs and injectors, moved injectors around and no matter what...... we keep getting misfire codes only on cylinder 1 and 2. Seems that this only happens under load on the highway, usually at high RPMs but sometimes when you let off the gas at high speeds, too.

Valves adjusted, still nothing. My guy there has family that are Honda techs, he spoke with them several times and they went over so many different possibilities, they even sent over a cam sensor to test and see if that was the issue. It wasn't. This just makes zero sense.

All I can think of is that my ECU is causing this problem, but I'm not that much of a car guy so wtf do I know? All I know is that my gas mileage sucks (like 20mpg hwy) and when I floor it I will get a strange noise (not the whirring/auto tranny about to die noise) when I'm going around 60mph around 5k RPM.

This has been the biggest pain in my ***. THE only amazing thing is that, for all of the time these guys spent on trying to fix it......they didn't charge me one penny.

Finally took the car back last night and just let loose on the highway out here, CEL came on as soon as I started hitting speeds in the 50s. I'll ODB it tomorrow, right now I'm just pissed.

One thing: they didn't have a dyno, maybe testing it on a dyno to see what the deal is in those circumstances will help, but again what do I know.

Any final thoughts from the 7thgen crew is always appreciated.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

ya check the code and go from there. they replaced the plugs right? try to get ahold of another ecu (make sure its same transmission type) and try that. seems like it might be the problem. ive heard of bad O2 sensor causing misfire too. have you checked the fuel pressure? usually misfire is fuel related. what about the times when cel comes on, is it only when the car is warmed up? could even be a vacuum leak i suppose.

DannyK35

I can always count on gearbox to chime in immediately. Seriously dude I should just drive to wherever you live and handle this crap.

yes, plugs were replaced and gapped. Tests were done, no problem with vacuum leaks. CEL only comes on when warm, under load and usually on the highway. I have gotten a code: PO420 Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold , but that was a while ago.

As always, I'll ODB it tomorrow and see what shows (although I can guess it's going to be the same) and report back.

jackoncruzpr

I gave up on mine also. I took it to a buddys house and we replaced the headgasket, WP, and timing belt. The car has been fine for a week now. Looks like it is fixed.

600 bucks worth of work and parts. I paid my buddy 200 for helping me and using his garage and tools.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

what did you buy for $600?? timing belt is $20, headgasket is maybe $40, and wp is no more than $150?

ElectroScantch

Does it really cost $1,000 to change a head gasket on our cars?

jackoncruzpr

I bought all original OEM parts from majestic honda.

1. WP ( $56 )
2. Timing belt ( $15 )
3. headgasket change kit ( $129 bucks included all seals and gaskets )
4. Tensioner ( $65 )
5. Both drive belts ( $40 locally...gatorbacks )
6. Drivers side visor ( $28 not related but needed one )
7. Coolant ( $9 locally )
8. Oil change stuff ( $14 locally )
9. Shipping ( $18 )
10. Set of metric impact sockets ( $22 locally )didnt find a 19MM single


Plus I spend a few bucks making a hub tool out of some pipe fittings from home depot. I wrote a how to in a nother thread here.

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...l-6-bucks.html

To me it was worth it since local shops wanted more than 1K to do the job. It wasnt quite $600 but close to it. After I gave my buddy 200 bucks for helping me do all this. Car runs good, doesnt overheat and doesnt lose any coolant anymore. Ran it with a/c on and sitting in the driveway for 30 minutes. Maintained itself cool.

supraman1990

hey gearbox.... im having the exact same problem as him except mines on ALL 4 cylinders and i haven't done any damage to the catalyst yet (not that i know of), im on the verge of just sending it to Honda and having them fix it... cuz i NEED it to go to houston in bout 6 months... its been pissing me off for a while... any suggestions before i go to honda? (asap would be awesome)

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

its hard to diagnose misfires without more info. the obvious stuff is make sure plugs are good, then test the coil packs with an ohm meter (the resistance should all be similar), fuel injectors may be clogged or low fuel pressure (bad fuel pump), could be blown headgasket if you have symptoms like losing coolant without any leaks, white smoke from exhaust, trouble starting the car and shaking at idle, white corrosion on plug tips, etc. could also be exhaust leak but you would notice from the loud noises. any engine codes? other than the misfires. if the car idles without dying, then usually its only 1 or 2 cylinders misfiring. if the car doesnt run, then i would suspect more. sometimes the ecu throws codes like that even if its only one cylinder.

supraman1990

I sadly gave up and sending it to the dealership... Fixing everything that's wrong except the timin belt (can get it done for $700 at a cheap shop), I just need to know I'm not gonna get stranded in the middle of no where on my way to Houston...

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

post up what they find out

supraman1990

hey gearbox, the car is at the dealership they will call me tomorrow (10-4-2011), the weird thing is... when i turned it off, i turned it back on to roll up the windows... the cel didnt come on... (well it did but it went away) O.o did i do something to fix it without realizing it?

i will post on what they tell me in the morning

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

without the engine running, it wont detect any misfire so it could have made the light go off. it will prolly come back when you restart the engine.

supraman1990

well i cant do anything, the cars at the dealership, even when the accessories were on the cel was on (not when the engine was on..... ok both with it off and on...) it was just weird... i also needed teh window washer pump and teh windshield wiper switch replaced as well so eh...

supraman1990

ok heres and update:

1 problem is aftermarket parts are on the car examples: distributor cap, rotor, spark plugs, and spark plug wires(for some reason im still curious on the dist. cap, rotor and wires...) AKA:
2. spark plugs are bosch (yes my fault i can do it myself)
3. timing belt might have jumped

total cost of so called "repairs" is $770 (or approx), to be honest i take civic forms word over any dealership no matter how many years they have on their belt. oh and a side note: FOR SOME MESSED UP REASON MY CAR KEEPS HAVING THE CEL LIGHT OFF WHEN AT THE DEALERSHIP f***ed up car thats so far what they dont me though, but all i want them to change is the timing belt (cuz honestly who doesnt have aftermarket parts in their car here?)

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

bosch plugs can def cause misfires, stick with ngk or denso. wires can also cause misfires even new ones if they are the crappy auto store generics. stick with oem or NGK wires. the cap and rotor usually wont matter if its aftermarket or not because the parts are so simple to begin with (unless they are not installing in the proper position).

timing belt skipping is possible, but only if the car runs like crap at all rpms. i would just change the parts back to recommended brands and start from there. you can do all that stuff yourself anyway.

supraman1990

Let everyone know the misfiring could be caused by your belt, they found mine jumped 3 teeth which was causing my misfire. (and I was missing 1 timing cover) the other 2 were broken or melted (idk how it got melted).

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

good to hear they figured it out