Who's had a bad transmission? *UPDATED*

[gearbox]

yeah coincidence. the whining means the oil pump was failing due to chunks of clutch pack breaking apart inside (mechanical defect, fluid does not cause it). i change my fluid about once a year to keep it new and been doing that from 18k miles. i have 90k now on my 2002. trans started slipping at 50k, did not get any worse til now. trans fluid change does not cause any problem, in fact it will help it last longer. if you already have the defect, it will break regardless of the fluid. some had theirs go in 20k miles, others at 120k miles. it just depends on the conditions. supposedly the 04-05 trans is supposed to have fixed the problem, but i never found out for sure. 01-02 is the worst, 03 is questionable.

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[JesLet]

Originally Posted by gearbox

yeah coincidence. the whining means the oil pump was failing due to chunks of clutch pack breaking apart inside (mechanical defect, fluid does not cause it). i change my fluid about once a year to keep it new and been doing that from 18k miles. i have 90k now on my 2002. trans started slipping at 50k, did not get any worse til now. trans fluid change does not cause any problem, in fact it will help it last longer. if you already have the defect, it will break regardless of the fluid. some had theirs go in 20k miles, others at 120k miles. it just depends on the conditions. supposedly the 04-05 trans is supposed to have fixed the problem, but i never found out for sure. 01-02 is the worst, 03 is questionable.

Thanks for your reply.

I think 2003 transmission are 50/50, or I should say hit or missed.

You kind of gave me a relief about replacing the fluid, which I will do sometime soon. I hope that is not a $2000+ trans fluid change.

[richs1000]

2002 auto. rebuilt at 71k. Now at 96k and still goin.

[jgg204]

I have a 2003 Honda Civic LX Coupe with 70,500 miles. I have done 3 auto-trans fluid changes on the vehicle all at a dealership, along with all of the proper scheduled maintenance there as well. The fluid changes were at the following intervals:

15K miles
30K miles
58K miles

Anyways, my auto-transmission problems are as follows:

- unless i let the car heat up for 5-10 mins, when accelerating the car sounds like it is going in reverse and whines very loud
- shifting gears 1-2 is a jolt
- shifting gears 2-3 is a long shift
- shifting gears 3-4 is a long shift


I took it to several shops, including the dealership where I purchased the vehicle. All of them said that the transmission is dying and will need to be rebuilt, however the dealership said that Honda does not allow dealerships to rebuild transmission, rather they have to get a factory rebuilt transmission from Honda directly for the repair.

The rebuild quoted me between $800-$1500 depending on the parts that need to be replaced, and the dealership quoted me $2,900 for the factory rebuilt transmission. The rebuild comes with a 12-month/12,000-mile warranty and the Honda factory rebuild transmission comes with a 3yr/36,000-mile warranty.

I told the dealership that I want them to call Honda Corporate and ask them to pay for some of this repair, because an auto-transmission should not fail at 70K miles especially since the fluid was changed 3X with Honda fluid at a dealership, as well as having all proper maintenance done at a dealership. The dealership got back to me and said that Honda Corporate is willing to chip in $1,000 for replacement transmission, so now my bill will be down to $1,900. That's satisfactory to me and while I feel that my transmission was built with the same defect that the 2001's were built with (my 2003 Civic had a 2002 build date and could possibly have a 2001 auto-transmission), Honda is not required by any means to replace my transmission for a vehicle that is nearing 7 years old and 70K+ miles.

I am getting the replacement transmission on Wednesday, and it will run me $1,900 which is all inclusive (taxes, fees, labor, etc). The factory rebuilt transmission from Honda will come with a 3yr/36K-mile warranty so for the next 3 years I am guaranteed from having any kind of transmission issues. I am satisfied because Honda has at least recognized there is a problem with their early 2000's transmissions in both their Accords and Civics. While I will never purchase a Honda Civic again, I will still consider Honda in a future purchase, and would probably not go with anything except for an Accord or CR-V. I feel that Honda tried to squeeze more profit margin out on their 7th generation Civics at the expense of quality, and what is to stop them from doing it again on their 8th generation? I can already tell they went cheap on the quality of the interior plastics on the 8th generation, so that's one of many reasons why I will never go with a Civic again.



Background on my Civic ownership history:

I used to own a 1997 Honda Civic LX Sedan. It was a hand-me-down vehicle from one of my parents. I took the vehicle up to 92K miles and it never had any issues. I only had to change the brakes twice on that vehicle, and the rotors only once. Everything done on it was routine like what I mentioned above, along with oil changes, spark plugs, tires, etc. Everything else on the vehicle was original including the suspension. It was running perfectly fine at 92K miles, and in early 2003 Honda came out with special financing along with big rebate incentives for their 2003 Honda Civics. The financing was 0.9% APR and I got $2,000 instantly off the price of the new Civic. I couldn't give up this offer, expecting to get the same level of quality that I had with my 1997 Civic. With my trade-in, their $2,000 incentive, more haggling, and another $2,000 down-payment, I was able to walk away with a brand new 2003 Honda Civic Coupe in Rallye Red for $151/mo for my monthly payment. It was an offer I couldn't resist so I did it. Biggest mistake of my life because I know my 1997 Civic would still be running today as a 12-yr old vehicle with what would be 160K+ miles. Granted, at that point it would need a timing belt and new shocks/struts, but I bet the transmission would still be running perfectly fine!

Well I learned my lesson on that one...so with my new transmission I will probably just run this 2003 Civic into the ground. If the factory transmission lasted me 7-years/70K miles, if I got another 70K out of my 2003 Civic I would be happy. Is that likely to happen? Who knows...but I'm at least guaranteed for another 3yrs/36K miles. Since it's only a 5 mile drive to base every day, I won't even come close to hitting the mileage warranty limit.




That's my story, sorry for the long novel, but I just wanted to describe my situation in full detail so people understand what was going on. Also, I just wanted to express my extreme dissatisfaction for the lack of build-quality for Honda's 7th-Generation Civics, especially model years 2001-2003. I used to work with 2 engineers who used to work at Honda, and they said that Honda Value Engineered the crap out of the 7th generation Civic, which would explain why they have so many problems. They said that the 8th generation had a large increase in build quality since it was designed better, but I'm sure as heck not taking any chances!!!

[gearbox]

it started getting much worse after 2000 model. the 8thgens are terrible too. if you ever drive one, you will see what i mean. our 92 accord is still ticking on the original auto trans with smooth shifts, and my 2002 civic started slipping at 50k miles. im treating it like a baby with all sorts of trans upgrades and new fluid yearly, oil cooler and filter, etc. its made it to 90k, but i cant drive anymore in the cold unless i let it warm up first, otherwise it will slip like crazy. its just poor quality parts and design. TCI used to make a rebuild kit for the trans with beefier parts, but i think its not for sale anymore.

[jgg204]

Originally Posted by gearbox

it started getting much worse after 2000 model. the 8thgens are terrible too. if you ever drive one, you will see what i mean. our 92 accord is still ticking on the original auto trans with smooth shifts, and my 2002 civic started slipping at 50k miles. im treating it like a baby with all sorts of trans upgrades and new fluid yearly, oil cooler and filter, etc. its made it to 90k, but i cant drive anymore in the cold unless i let it warm up first, otherwise it will slip like crazy. its just poor quality parts and design. TCI used to make a rebuild kit for the trans with beefier parts, but i think its not for sale anymore.

i don't know if i should feel good or pissed off that i am in the same boat that hundreds of others are too. i just checked the www.carcomplaints.com website and the 2001 Honda Civic was ranked the #2 (out of 20) of the worst vehicles for problems. wow! what a drastic change from their high quality Accords and Civics in the 1990's.

Originally Posted by gearbox

the 8thgens are terrible too. if you ever drive one, you will see what i mean

i had an 8th generation coupe as a loaner when i was getting a 60K tuneup done back in January. are the 8th generation civics also have transmission issues?

[gearbox]

im not sure, but when i drove a brand new one it felt like the auto trans was ready to fall apart. i even asked the guy why its so chunky getting into gear and not shifting very fast, he just made up some dumb reason that its supposed to be like that. i could never drive one, didnt even feel right sitting in it.

[Awjvail]

My 02 has the original transmission and clutch at 155k miles. Clutch is starting to slip every now and then but it's still very drivable.

[jgg204]

Originally Posted by Awjvail

My 02 has the original transmission and clutch at 155k miles. Clutch is starting to slip every now and then but it's still very drivable.

auto-trans or stick? you make it sound like you have a stick

[jgg204]

Originally Posted by gearbox

im not sure, but when i drove a brand new one it felt like the auto trans was ready to fall apart. i even asked the guy why its so chunky getting into gear and not shifting very fast, he just made up some dumb reason that its supposed to be like that. i could never drive one, didnt even feel right sitting in it.

well one thing that i noticed when i drove the 8th gen loaner while my 2003 Civic was getting the 60K tuneup, was that the 8th generation handles in a much sportier fashion. the suspension is stiffer, the steering is much tighter than i remember my 2003 Civic being brand new, and obviously the controls are sportier as well.

i didn't notice the transmission shifting in a rough fashion, but either way if i ever found myself with a 8th Civic in my hands, i would baby that auto-trans from day 1 and change the auto-trans fluid every 15K miles. i have no faith in Honda transmissions now, especially seeing how many people have been screwed over on their 7th gen Civics on this forum, as well as the thousands of people of www.carcomplaints.com who have been screwed over with 7th Gen Civic transmissions and 2001-2004 Honda Accord transmission.

i just don't get it...i mean...i thought it was just the American companies that couldn't get the basic mechanisms of a vehicle right. such as Ford's issues with transmissions in their Explorers, and GM's issues with head gaskets and poor engine design. i never would have thought that Honda would also cheap out on their transmissions. i think they lost a big group of loyal customers to Toyota and Subaru as a result of the stunt they pulled with the early 2000's Civics and Accords

[gearbox]

really. haha i felt the exact opposite. but i do have suspension upgrades on my car tho. couldnt wait to get back in my 7thgen. and yeah all cars these days seem to have poor quality. older cars are where its at, anything 2000 and below works great.

[jgg204]

Originally Posted by gearbox

really. haha i felt the exact opposite. but i do have suspension upgrades on my car tho. couldnt wait to get back in my 7thgen. and yeah all cars these days seem to have poor quality. older cars are where its at, anything 2000 and below works great.

yeah...i agree. i don't know what it was about the year 2000, but the quality in cars took a HUGE dip. i am tempted to hunt around for a 1997 Civic, like my previous one, so i know i will have a reliable vehicle.


so tomorrow i am getting the Honda Factory rebuilt transmission installed at a dealership. luckily i have off for Veteran's Day, which is allowing me to get it done in the middle of the week. it's a good thing, because this morning it has gotten especially bad and i don't even have confidence that it will last that much longer. so disappointed that this Civic has let me down but grateful at the same time that Honda Corporate has recognized that there is a problem and they are paying for $1,000 of it. so, instead of setting me back $2,900 , it is taking a large chunk out of my monthly income in the amount of $1,900. oh well... looking at the bright side of things, the new trans is guaranteed to last another 3 years. nothing else on the vehicle is having serious issues, and from reading forums and the www.carcomplaints.com website really only the following have been of a concern:

1) cheap engine mounts (already cracked and replaced)
2) cheap struts (these have not yet gone bad, but will be voluntarily replaced in 1 1/2 yrs or so)
3) transmission (is about to die and getting replaced tomorrow)
4) rocking driver's seat (the seat is already like that and i'm not sure when i will do the DIY)

[gearbox]

the front engine mount barely lasts 10k miles, the front lca bushings might last 50k if youre lucky. i replaced both with energy suspension inserts.dont bother doing the rocking seat diy, i already did and the problem came back 2 weeks later. only way to really fix it is adjust the seat how you like, then weld the height adjustment mechanism to the bracket (height adjustment wont work, but chair wont rock anymore). yeah the suspension is garbage too. it was bouncy from day 1.

[jgg204]

Originally Posted by gearbox

the front engine mount barely lasts 10k miles, the front lca bushings might last 50k if youre lucky. i replaced both with energy suspension inserts.dont bother doing the rocking seat diy, i already did and the problem came back 2 weeks later. only way to really fix it is adjust the seat how you like, then weld the height adjustment mechanism to the bracket (height adjustment wont work, but chair wont rock anymore). yeah the suspension is garbage too. it was bouncy from day 1.

thanks for some of those specifics on the Civic, for simplicity i am going to break down some of my questions into a list format.

1) how many times have you had to replace your engine mounts? why do they keep cracking so frequently? my engine mounts cracked / showed signs of cracking at roughly 60K miles. are there after market engine mounts that are more durable?

2) i still have the factory lower control arm bushings. if the bushings go bad, what kinds of signs would i notice?

3) so the new bushings on the rocking seat DIY didn't fix the problem for longer than a few weeks? did the replacement bushings fail or do you think the rocking seat has nothing to do with the bushings?

4) yeah, i hear you on the suspension being spongy. i actually felt that my suspension on my 1997 Civic. one of the problems this generation has, as i listed above, are that Honda put cheap factory struts in the vehicle. i bet i will need to replace them within the next 2 years

5) question about steering. i may just be paranoid or overly sensitive to the steering, but it seems that the steering wheel needs to be turned every so very slightly to the left for the vehicle to go straight. the car doesn't veer to the right like it would be if the vehicle was out of alignment. there is no "pulling" to the right, it just seems that the steering wheel is slightly off center, but ever so slightly. if i straighten the steering wheel so the wheel is dead-on straight in alignment with my dash then the car veers to the right. i've gotten numerous alignments and i have brand new tires, but it still does it. i may just be paranoid, and it could very well just be due to the crown of the road tilting to the right...it's just that i never really noticed it before and it seems that i have to turn the steering wheel to the left a little more than i have had to in the past when the road is crowning to the right. the way i tested this out, was i drove on the left-most lane of this one road that crowns to the left, and it seems that i don't have to turn the steering wheel to the left as much as i would have to if the road was crowning to the right. i hope that description wasn't too complicated!


6) any suggestions on alleviating the start of pistol tapping? any kind of oil treatments? the pistol tap (common on Subarus) is starting to become a minor presence, which i can tell while accelerating slowly along a median or road block b/c it reflects the sound of my engine through the window and i can hear it.

7) any general suggestions on getting this Civic to last me for the next 3 years? any other common components besides what i mentioned, that are known to fail and i should be looking out for?

[gearbox]

1. people have gone thru as many as 4 front mounts in 50k miles. if you look at the flimsy construction, youll realize why they break. usually only one arm breaks, and you can repair it with the energy suspension motor mount inserts. they are polyurethane not rubber, so you will get some extra vibrations, but it will never need replacing again.

2. LCAs are the same way, crappy rubber bushings. cornering at hi speeds will be dangerous, alignment will be off, and you may even hear some noises when they go bad. usually 50-60k they will be torn to pieces. ES makes a full poly replacement and those are beefy bushings. they make creaking noises in the winter when going over bumps, which is well worth having never to replace em again and keeping good alignment.

3. rocking seat has nothing to do with the bushings. in fact, the original bushings were fine! its just the way they designed it. fail. im looking at getting an aftermarket seat to replace with. altho if i could find one, id get an LX seat (no height adjustment) from the same model year so the fabrics match.

4. oem shocks are very bad, almost any aftermarket like tokico hp will be a big upgrade.

5. its prolly just uneven road. and the wheel will never be perfectly centered anyway even with perfect alignment.

6. check my sig for the best oil and gas treatments. lubecontrol.com

7. not really sure, a whole lot could fail, or nothing. just depends on the car i guess.