AggressiveAdam

iTrader: (4)

Hello everyone,

I have gotten numerous questions about what to do with those dreaded yellow tickets so I have decided to write a little DIY that will explain all your options while you are being tried under the Highway Traffic Act.

First of all I'd like to mention that in no way shape or form is this legal or paralegal advice, I am hear to deliver you my opinion on how people should handle there traffic tickets. My advice could very well be wrong and invalid, if I make a mistake please feel free to correct me. The HTA changes often and the way the courts work changes even faster. I have been fighting traffic tickets for my brother and father since before I even had my license and have arrived at a few good pointers at the system.

Currently I am free from any tickets but have managed to save both my brother and my dad from 2 speeding tickets. In case anyones curious I got off a 78 in a 60 zone as it is my only ticket.

The following will out line my PERSONAL opinion (not professional) as to how a ticket should be taken care of. This WILL NOT work for everyone and my advice is here only to give you a flavour of what you will experince in and around court. I will try to put as much info here as possible and will gladly answer any PM's provided people understand I am a university student and NOT a paralegal. The Highway Traffic Act is availible at google.ca and you should really read the relevent sections BEFORE you go to trial. This advice is for Ontario people ONLY and is tailored to those who live in major citys. Particularly the center of the universe Toronto, j/k.

As much as I am kidding I am serious in the fact that large cities leave you more options as how you should fight your ticket. In Toronto there are many many judges and ever more prosecutors. In small towns this is not always the case (often times judges/juctices travel to different courts on a daily basis) I will dive into the small town logistics later but enjoy the following advice as a rule of thumb. This is not a replacement for an experinced paralagel but this advice can help minimize the amount of work a paralegal has to do for you therefore lowering your fees.

To start
There are a few ways you can be charged in Ontario. Criminal Code, Highway Traffic act, and Liqour License Act.

The Criminal Code deals with offences that are deem criminal (such as theft, drive motor vechile under the influence etc)

The Highway Traffic Act or as its very commonly reffered to as the HTA deals with offences related to driving on Provincial Highways including any street inside of a city but NOT including private property (malls drive-thrus etc). (speeding, unsafe lane changes etc)

The Liqour License Act deals with offences that are not criminal however involve the imporper consumption and/or sale of liqour. (examples include open liqour container in automobile (flasks/open bottles, and drinking under 19 years of age) they are not as serious and mainly involve hefty cash fines.

Now that we understand the very basics of rules we will cover how to handle tickets mainly covered under the Highway Traffic Act herewithen referred to as the HTA.

Theres flashing lights behind me and I just pulled over
Despite what movies might make you think DO NOT TEST THE POLICE, unless it is resonable to beleive that they are not pulling you over. Pull over immidiatly to the most SAFE place to pull over (safe examples include, under bridges, when exit lanes open up, in general as far as is safe from the flow of traffic)

When you pull over shut off your engine and if you really want to earn brownie points throw your keys on the dash. This assures the officer you are not running anywhere without at least reaching to your dash or starting your engine. This builds confidence and trust and is not always neccassary particularly if you are an older person who is generally trustworthy.

It goes without saying to keep your hands on the steering wheel. When the officer approches be the NICEST YOU CAN BE. Do not ask stupid questions as to why you are being pulled over. Remember the police have the right (and I mean the right) to pull you over for ABSOLUTE no reason other then to inspect your insurance and registration. Most of the time you have been speeding, and I suggest the following.

With regards to speeding, for a cop to truly give you a speeding ticket he needs to catch you on radar. Lots of times cops pull you over for stupid speeds but they do not have you on radar. For a cop to get you on radar he MUST be going 0 km/h or a steady pace such as 110km/h on a straight or hill bend otherwise he will not be able to get an accurate measurement of your speed.

Warnings are often issued when police fail to gain credible radar readings. As little faith as most people have in the police I have found they tend to be honest about weather or not they have you on radar.

Remember, the goal when your pulled over is NOT and I repeat is NOT to see if you can get your way out of tickets. Your goal is to be the most RESONABLE polite and respectful person you can be. This goes double when your outside of large urban centers. Let the cop give you as many tickets as he wants, by being resonable and a polite citizen you will gain far more respect in the cops mind and will minimize tickets and at the very worst case give you some more cards to play in court (more talk about that later)

Remember cops only have the authority to issue you the tickets, THEY ARE NOT THE ONES WHO DECIDE IF YOU ARE GUILITY OR NOT. Judges fill that role.

No matter how much a cop is an A$$hole or a D!ck DO NOT give into his misbeviour. Be the bigger [wo]man. Often times cops are those guys from highschool everyone hated and now they have a badge. Roadside they LOVE (especially in small towns) to flaunt authority, just give in to it, staying off the officers bad side is probably the best thing you can do. Everyone has a bad day, just pray he's in a good mood when he gets to court (you'd be surprised how they behave road side and court side)


So you broke the law or at least the cop thinks you did. DO NOT and I repeat do NOT ask the officer why you were pulled over. He eventually will tell you if you were violating some rule weather or not he has the evidence to proove it.

So. Bottom line SUCK UP TO THE COP. I hate it but just suck up enough that you dont end up in his bad books. Dont over suck up but just enough for him to beleive you are a resonable human being, even if he is out of line. Respect is everything and a Police Officer even from small towns is a VERY credible witness to aything. Your goal is to get him as close to yourside as possible. Cops rarly remember details about tickets that went smoothly but have no problem remember a$$holes in court.

So I got a ticket now what? Should I pay it?
Here is the decision point. Tickets take up time. You must calculate how much your time is worth, and how much your insurance / driver license will be affected by your ticket.

Your first step should be calling your insurance company. Ask them hello, I am Adam X and I just got a ticket for X in a 60 zone. Your insurance company will likely already know about the ticket but wont hold it against you until your convicted. Ask them what being found guility on this ticket will do to you record. Often times insurance companies wont raise your rates, they will just remove "discounts" that you no longer qualify for. Such as ticket free, collission free etc. Theres no point in hiding from your insurance company as they ALWAYS find out.

Now you decide weather or not its worth your time to fight the ticket. If you are under 25 I highly sugget you fight your ticket to the end. If your dealing with a ticket yourself and you live within 20 km of the court house the most it will likely cost you in terms of time is 3-5 hours TOPS. This depends on how many tickets you get but shouldnt take more then 5. IMPORTANT you may have an agent represent you on ANY thing except a plea of innocence. You do not have to file for the ticket yourself, a family member or friend can do it for you. I will explain more about what you have to do in the next section

Okay, I realized it is acually worth my time to fight the ticket, where do I start?

Good move, if you have realized that ticket is worth fighting I am parting with some advice that will give you the most cards to play with in this game. I will not give you direct advice, I will give you general advice as to when you should consider a paralegal.

Anyways, you NEED to file for a court date if you plan on fighting this ticket. Look on the back of the ticket and look for the TRIAL option, usually option III. This will involve you going to the court to file for a court date.

LITTLE KNOWN FACT if it is easier write on the slip the clerk gives you REQUEST NIGHT COURT. Assuming its easier for you. Most major cities have night court and if you work during the day it can save you time which means more money. Weather or not they grant your request is up to them but I have never been denied night court.


Okay once you have filed for court the clerk should give you some sort of recept. If you do not receive a TRIAL NOTICE within 6 months it is YOUR duty to call the provincial prosecutors office and find out when your trial is. Realistically you dont find out for a year but if your notice is acually lost in the mail, the responsibility is YOURS to find out weather or not a trial has been set. In the event that you forget your date and miss it, rush to the nearest provincial prosecutors office and request a REOPENING. I missed a trial once and honestly said I lost my phone (which included my calender reminders) and was an honset mistake. I had another trial hearing opened. Remember time is NOT on your side, the faster you report the mistake the more likely they will re open it. Remember if you dont show up for court you pay defult fines which make it even more expensive then the tickets face price.



So I recevied a notice for court in the mail and have to go to court soon. Is this my moment of truth?

Not neccasasrily. Now that you have received your notice of trial it is time for you to start preparing your defence.

The law in Ontario states that you are entiled to receive all evidence that is used against you in a court of law. Generally this law applies to legal case where the prosecutor [the state, or the "people)] must disclose (discolse = give out) all evidence they plan on using in trial.

Now speeding is not different then murder, you have the RIGHT to see ALL evedence against you. In the next post I am including a basic letter which you should mail to the address on the back of the ticket. DO NOT expect a copy of the radar's manual as it is copyrighted material and they will NOT photocopy it for you. The rest they should provide you with whats called Discolsure or legal mumbo jumbo for Evidence.

Remember you are entitled to EVERYTHING the crown/proesecutor relies on in trial. If the crown/prosecutor introduces anything you havn't heard of dont be afraid to ask why it was not introduced into disclosure. Likewise you must provide the same evidence to them. If you had someone in the car with you, have them write up a witness statement and mail it in with your disclosure request. ANYTHING you plan on relying on court MUST be disclosed to the courts BEFORE you go to trial. Otherwise you run the risk of the judge not introducing the evidence into trial.

Evidence can include things such as, photos, witness statements, red light camera photos etc. Anything that you plan on showing the judge MUST MUST be showen before court.

So before you go to court make sure you mail the letter below. Do not send regular mail. Send Xpresspost w/ Signature Required. This is important as you MUST proove you sent a package and it was delivered. This will likely cost you $7.

Now that you have mailed that letter you can relax and forget about your ticket until your court date. MAKE SURE you set a reminder in outlook or your cell phone about the court date as re opening become harder and harder as days pass. DO NOT MISS COURT. Officers rarly do so you not being there looks reallly bad.

No disclosure NO TRIAL. DO not make ANY comprimses in this matter. You are entitled to this information do not let ANYONE talk you out of this right!

So I sent your letter Adam and my tickets court date is in two weeks, I have yet to receive a response. What should I do?


You are probably in one of the better positions you can be in. DO NOT expect an acual response via courir about your disclosure. The provincial offences is EXTREAMLY backed up, and if you do not receive full disclosure you are NOT required (nor should you) proceed to trial. If you have not received discolsure make sure you provide proof you sent a request for it (copy of requset form, shipping receipts + delivery confirmation printout). If you do not have discolsure you have the RIGHT not to proceed. There is no reason in Ontario why should not have the entire case presented before you go to trial.

When you get to court and your name is called tell the judge you made a request for disclosure and you have not received it. The judge will either order the clerk to hand you the discolsure if availible or tell the crown to arrange delivery of that discolsure on another day. In any case DO NOT PROCEED WITH TRIAL remember you have the RIGHT not the option of disclosure. Should the judge hand you the discoslure on the spot you will NOT be expected to proceed right away. You are entitled a "resonalble" period of time to review the disclosure to decided weather or not you need a paralegal.

So basically your first appointment in court should solve NOTHING and only delay the process. The judges know all about the delay game and I like to play border line between rights and delays.


So I showed up for court, now what?

BE EARLY I cannot stress this enough, be 20 minutes early. When you walk in to court sign in with the prosector. The prosecutor is like the person representing the people, hes an a$$hole and not usually your friend. He will usually tell you if the officer is there or not. If he is I HIGHLY recommend you ask him to point out the officer. Weather or not you get convicted on the ticket doesnt directly rely on the officers attendance but if hes there talk to him. DO NOT TALK TO HIM IN COURT! Ask him to take you to a private discussion room (theres plenty of lawyer rooms in courts). At the vey worst case outside the front door is really not a problem. This provides an off record more relaxing enviroment for the officer and you. This helps. Regardless of how your bust went its probably been atleast half a year if not a year. Chances are that officer remembers very little about you. Talk to him and basically beg, tell him your a poor student (that really works if your in school) or show him a copy of your insurance bill if your paying stupid amounts for insurnace. ANYTHING that tugs strings to make you look like a resonsibile member of society, charity work proof can help as well.

In any case feel the cop out, your primary goals are figuring out if hes in a good mood, bad mood. Most importantly if he wants to fuc|< you over or not. Remember an officier on your side is the BEST thing you can have. If the officers a a$$hole you have a back up plan with the disclosure that I will discuss later. The reason I have you request discolsure is it leaves you an escape plan I will discuss in below sections.
So I got my disclosure after the trial date and now have been ordered back to court. Adam what the hell should I do now?

Okay so nows your moment of truth. By now you should have figured out the following thigs.

i) What the officer thinks of you as a person and your offence.
ii) How much evidence the officer has against you.
iii) weather or not the judge / prosecutor is a dic|<. (remember if you get a bad feeling try your best for an Adjournment (legal mombo jubmbo for a break/delay)

you now must decide weather or not its woth a paralegal. When you go into court you will be offered deals such as " No points $100 fine etc" DO NOTE EVER TAKE THESE DEALS!.


little known fact The addition of points on your license only puts you in the bad books of the Ministry of Transportation. NOT THE people in charge of deciding your insurance rates. Points can screw you over if you have a G2. If you have a G and no points dont worry about 2 points.

Sadly the insurance companies care about tickets weather or not they include points doesnt exactly matter to them. if you get a 65 in a 60 ticket which has no points your insurance company can still raise your rates.

So when the crown / prosecutors offers you a plea of guility in exchange for no points proudly say NO THANK YOU unless you are a G2 driver (proud not to be).

All in all its up to the judge and what kind of show you put on. Understand that the logical and resonalble people are the ones who get off with suspended sentances (suspended means no punishment, finacial or otherwise)

remember, be that officers friend. He doesn't make money weather or not your convicted. The prosecutor on the other hand is acutualllythe one your up against. Dont waste your breath with him unless he seems nice and you have a decent excuse.

so below I will lay out rules of thumb.

Rules of Thumb

1)If you do not understand ASK.
They often times use legal mumbo jumbo to confuse you. Make sure you read about common court terms ( a simple search in google) as the meaning of terms will NOT BE explained to you. On the other hand you have the right to understand why you are being charged with something. Do not be afraid to request an interpreter, in big cities it is no problem. Ive seen Polish interpreters.

2) Dont speed in small towns.
Some of these towns the only money they make is off tickets. Hit the cruise control and dodge the speed traps.

3) DONT SPEED IN THE US

Its one thing to drive a bit fast on a highway while your in town, but while your on the interstate set your cruise at 5%-10% over and just dont speed. on 9 hour drives 10 mp/h over and you will get a ticket just from being from Canada. Theres no such thing as a BS ticket in the states. They know your from far away and its not worth the hassle to fight very small tickets. Its a cash grab and theres little U-Turn spots cops can sit at on any given interstate. DONT TEST THE STATES!

4) Paralegals do not need ANY qualification.
If I could con you into giving me a despoit it would make me a paralegal. Paralegals can take courses in college to understand the HTA but are no where near lawyers. Likewise if you want a family member or friend to go file the ticket and collect disclosure (provided it wasnt mailed to you) thats fine. THe only time the person named on the ticket must appear is a plea. If your appearing for someone else a letter is always apporpriate.
"hello my name is Adam,"
"I am out of town and unable to collect discolsure"
"In my palce I allow 7thgencivic.com to pick up my disclosure"
"Name/Date"

its as simple as that.

5) if you feel your are being musscled by a a$$hole judge or prosecutor just keep asking for an adjournment. You should NOT be overwhelmbed by court and you should understand EVERYTHING that is going on. If you feel you are over your head make sure then next time you are able to speak say

"Sir, with all do respect this trial is over my head, I would request a period of two weeks to obtain a paralegal to assit me in this matter"

Usually judges dont like to give adjournments (breaks/delays) but if you stick to your guns they will allow you to get a paralegal. This is also a good method if you get an a$$hole judge.

more general rules
1) Be early
2) Bow your head when you walk into court, and before you sit in your row (if judge is present)
3) take off any non religious head gear.
4) TURN OFF CELL PHONES, should your cell phone go off judges undestand as long as a swift and proper aplogy happens
5) In small towns you dont stand much of a chance, theres so much politics in those small towns you wouldn't beleive.
6) NEVER EVER EVER EVER interrupt a judge. Let him speak until hes out of air.
7) Your entitled to your disclosure. NEVER LET ANYONE talk you out of it.


Again Im tired, ill review this list tommorow for spelling and any additional points. I hope you enjoy it!

Anyways guys I hope this helps, Im going to be posting a DIY on parking tickets next as I have SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much expericne with those. Dont be afraid to read the HTA. Its thick but all you have to do is read the relevent sections to your charge.


+rep me

I am getting tired so have to wrap up this thread. I am going to add to it over the next few days and would appreciate +rep if you feel I deserve it. Mods if you want to sticky this that'd be a real honor.

I am happy to entertain questions, just make sure there specific and logical. Understand im a university student stuying business, I can give advice based on my past but cannot give you perfect advice.

AggressiveAdam

iTrader: (4)

[insert date, your name, any contact info (email cell) and address/ fax]


Provincial Prosecutor's Office
1530 Markham Rd.
Scarborough, ON M1B 3G4
[example]

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am scheduled to appear in night court on 16th day of May, at 7PM to answer to a charge of speeding contrary to the highway traffic act section 128, offence number: 486377070914

Please provide complete disclosure of the case against me, with the following items:

1. both sides of the officer's copy of the ticket;
2. the make, model, and serial number of the radar unit, and its owner's manual;
3. the officer's training record specific to the said radar unit;
4. the calibration record and repair history of the said radar unit;
5. the records of any calibration equipment such as tuning forks;
6. the officer's log on the alleged offence day, including all tickets he/she had written on that day,

and any document the Crown may rely on at trial.

As I am sure you realize, I require timely disclosure in order to make full answer and defense to the charge. Thank you for your assistance, and please send me all the information to the above address.

Sincerely yours,
-------------

Make sure you send something simialr to this with REGISTERED MAIL w/ Signature on Delivery. Canana Post is your cheapest option. Remember discolsure is your back up.

I will be editing the post but im so tired. Hope this helps all those with yellow tickets. NEVER EVER EVER just pay em, unless your super rich.



Just to let you know I got off my 76 in a 60 by feeling out the cop was in a bad mood the first day. Next time I talked to him HE told me a mistake on the ticket and got me off. A cop CAN be your friend as much as I hate em.

ill have plenty more tips when I get some sleep. If you guys need help my pm box is a click away. I just ask you
1. number your questions
2. in clear
3. logical questions.
4. and I will reply.

Best of luck to you wiith tickets, Im knocking on viny for none (3000km road trip w/o speeding in the states!)

Transformer_Guy

iTrader: (10)

Someone sticky this

jhonsok

wow. thank you soooo much adam ! i wish i had this a year ago !
Actually i was convicted of going 145 on the 404. Dont ask me why i was going that fast, i just was.

Anyways, i did know to turn my car off, have my hands placed on my steering wheel, and becuase it was nighttime, i turned on my maplight, so he could see me, and see where my hands were. I knew it was important to make the officer feel safe.

He asked why i was going so fast. I didnt make up any excuses at all. I simply just told him. I was just speeding. There was no reason to my speed on the road. (At that point in time, I've only had my G2 for 2 months. )

He then asked for my License and Regestration. Since i was in my mothers car, i had no idea as to where in the hell were her insurance slips and ownership. I looked all over with the cop watching over my back. I couldnt find it. I told him "I have no idea where those documents are, this is my mothers car. I'm sure its somewhere. The cop said don't worry about it. I can look that stuff up on my computer.

I was one of hte very fortunate to have a nice cop. And not an a-hole. He then stated everything that i was convicted for, all the charges etc. ( At this point, my heart is beating, and i could just picture my dad kicking my *** when i get home, and never letting me drive any of their cars ever again). He told me that since i was a new driver he is going to let me off and charge me for going 14 over 100, and having no insurance slip or ownership. But he said that those can be fought very easily. He then told me to "SLOW DOWN, and TAKE IT EASY. and Drive 120 like everybody else, Drive on the shoulder till you reach an approximated speed of 80, then merge in. And check your blind spot before doing so !"

The day after i went to my local ticket office place..I chose..option 2 which i think was the first hearing. I had a 1 on 1 with the prosecutor. She put it down to 10 over. And took care of my insurance and ownership tickets because i brought the documentation with me. So i ended up paying..60 - 70 dollars or so, i dont remember. For a ticked going 110km/h on a posted 100.

So far..i havnt heard anything from insurance..or raised rates..but i am being raped for driving a 2005 7thgen si Sedan. At 19 years old. About $5000 a year.

I wish i would have fought it further..but at the time..it seemed like a good deal.

But with all this advice you've posted. I rep you ! Awsome..I'm sure its going to help a LOT of people. I'm bookmarking this link right now. Great job adam !

AggressiveAdam

iTrader: (4)

Id also like to add the following.

If your talking with that cop outside the court room and hes just giving you the run around and being a total d!ck. This is a perfect time (even if you have disclosure) to tell the judge you need an adjourment. Judges dont like to delay things but you can tell them that you are in over your head and need a paralegal. Also if the cop is just not willing to help you out, ask him to explain the details of the charge, and if possible his notes on that night (he probably wont have em). Remember the disclsoure is importnat, its like your back door.

I see so many people walk into court, scared and blind. Pleaing guility to things they may or may not be able to proove. Remember the reverse onus is on you for disclosure. If you have a friend in your car that saw you signal for the lane change (your bulb just happened to be burnt out, or the sun too bright for the officer to see it) a simple letter that says "my name is Susie, I saw Adam signal for his turn just before the officer pulled him over. Infact his blinker was still on when he made the turn. If requried I will be availible for trial as a witness".

Now if the witness was in the car its not very credible since theres an obvious bias to you. It doesnt hurt, and someone showing up in court and swearing they wont lie depending on the judge can be considered evidence. Its a whole lot better having one witness statement then NO evidence to submit to them. Remember ALWAYS use signature required mail and bring the proof with you to court. Paperwork gets lost ALL the time. Ive even had 1 parking ticket dissappear, this is VERY rare.

The key in court is to stick to your guns, ask for adjournments if you need them. Even a 15 minute adjournment so you can call a paralegal or lawyer (there usually floating around traffic court) you could even higher one for you gurenteeing you an adjournemnt. Courts are intimidating, both judges and cops know this. Remember the one thing is that this whole process should NOT be confusing, intimidating or overwhelming. Ive been through courts in small towns and big, and the cocky people who walk in there blind trying to talk there way out of a ticket often times get the worst punishments. The fact that it is intimidating is noting but politics and a system that is really old. At every point along the process politly ask the judge to further explain any of his instructions. You must UNDERSTAND everything that is told to you in court as you are legally bound to follow the judges instructions. Courts are always on record and judges make sure you understand what you are doing.

for example, if your pleading guility (which I dont recommend you do) the judge will make sure you understand the charge by asking. "You the charged on 1/1/06 did commit the offence of Speeding 145 in a 100 contrary to the HTA, do you understand the charge before you? Yes? How would you like to pleae, not guility...

etc.

Also dont expect to get away with my process here. This process just leaves you windows as to when you decide to higher a paralegal.

IMPORTNAT

when you show up for court the prosecutors always going to say "we can lower it to no points just a fine" DONT EVER EVER EVER EVER fall for this unless you have discussed with your insurance companythat the ticket will do nothing for you. Points dont mean a whole lot and unless your being charged with careless driving (which I recommend you go through my first steps and higher a paralegal before going to trial). Many people fall for this sucker deal and its there only to get less people going through the system like I do.

Whatever deal that prosector offers you unless its completly wiping a ticket (which they can do if you didnt have an insurance slip but are insured), with speeding DO not fall for any speed reductions.

KNOW BEFORE YOU GO, know how many points your being charged with, know the groups of points (100-114 no points) etc. Giving into the prosectors requests throws away everything I stand for and dismisses your right to a trial. If you inadvertanly said yes to his deal, and your sitting there seeing the judge throw away every ticket (happens a lot when the judge doesnt like the juctice) you are not bound to waht you said to the procestor. Its not professional but when he announces that the courts anticipating a guility plea you can decide that you want to enter a plea of innoocence. Try and beg for an adjournment for a paralegal, pretty much your only way out unless you havnt received disclsoure.

Even without a paralegal you can say your just so confused, on very low sleep and need a few nights to think about it. Tell them your willing to come back at the earliest date.


REMEMBER STICK TO YOUR GUNS

if they do give you a fine, ask if you can donate that money to a charity of the courts choice. I tried it once and the judge was impressed with it, I ended up getting off the ticket but thats a long story. Depending on the judge this can sweeten your deal.

If the judge says you have 30 days to pay a fine and you are not able to. ASK FOR 60 90 or even a year if your strapped for cash. Judges dont usually care how long it takes you to pay.

Okay im probably missing a whole lot more of my info but ill add when I can. I am now going to write a DIY on parking tickets.

AggressiveAdam

iTrader: (4)

Another note, that I felt worthy of putting another post.

You may have noticied a new option on tickets. Sometimes Option IV (four) and its an interview with the prosecutor (1on1 as discribed in jhonsoks post). Now I hate to say this jhonsok I dont think the 1 on 1 is neccasarrily a good bet. The procestor interview is acually no different then when you walk into court and check in with the prosectuor, they always offer you some deal to plea guility and most people shouold not take em up on it unless there cancelling tickets.

The interview with the prosecutor is the SAME THING, except in an office. Now Im not saying dont go for this option, DO NOT fall for whatever they tell you. Remember the prosecutor is just as the word spells out. PROSECUTOR. His goal is convictions, not points or money. He is a lawyer for the people or the public and is a very highly qualified lawyer. These people becoem prosectuors because they like the legal system, real lawyers stay lawyers and not judges because you make more money working for your own firm then you do sitting on a bench. Most of these prosecutors may even end up being judges but remember, no matter how nice they are to you or how mean THEY ARE THE ENEMY its its most literal sense. They are not there to be your friends or give you advice, just convictions convictions convictions. The more convictions he gets in this room the less the courts have to deal with.


Remember this is IMPORTANT

go to your meeting, talk to the prosecutor, who knows if there from the same background as you they may be able to get you a decent deal. Remember DO NOT TAKE THERE OFFER UNLESS IT INVOLVES GETTING RID OF THE TICKET

DO not feel obligated to take the persons deal just because they made this interview with you, I would recommend just walking away and politly asking for trial. This is your RIGHT and nobody should EVER talk you out of it. As soon as you receive a trial date request disclosure.

Alright parking ticket DIY next

AlienX

iTrader: (2)

damn, nice write up.. I couldn't even read though all of it because I know how to handel this stuff like a pro, but number one key point of all.. SUCK UP !! its true, and it saved my *** once. Sucking up in court doens't work

TeLLy

iTrader: (23)

Great post. Not that it matters much but rep+ for you.

AggressiveAdam

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for the rep guys, Id be honored if this was stickied

btw one more tip.

I mentioned I got off my first ticket this is how...

My first date the cop was a real d!ck and didnt want to do anything for me, I ask for an adjourment based on the lack of disclosure.

Second date I came back, asked the cop to talk outside. He said "I was once young too" and pointed out a BIG mistake for me.

I was going down the Finch West hill (by don mills) and he busted me doing 76 in a 60

He lowered it to 68 in a 60 or something with no points. On the ticket he wrote speed 68 in a 60 then wrote in the bottom my real speed 76/60. He told me look go in there, point that out and it should get you off.

I was a bit confused and was thinking the officer was tricking me, so I go in to talk to the prosector. To my surpise he interupts me and says "listen I wrote two speeds on the ticket, some justice will throw that out for that reason"

they cancelled my ticket on the spot, 5 minutes later the judge came in and made it offical.

STAY ON COPS GOOD SIDE. If you think your cop is an A$shole that will do you no favors, dont bother fighting him, get a real paralegal or a real lawyer if you can afford one.

Karumba

iTrader: (7)

to a great thread and for dropping a pm to NoiSe

NoiSe

stickified great post man

AggressiveAdam

iTrader: (4)

/me is honoured

putting the finishing touches on my Parking ticket DIY.

AggressiveAdam

iTrader: (4)

Heres some good info from my Parking Ticket DIY that is also useful in traffic court situations

Okay so I got my court date what should I do when I get there?

If you care about time MAKE SURE YOU GET THERE EARLY! This is not always the case but for the most part the first ones to check in are the first ones to leave. Parking at scarborough isn't bad but isn't free. Jerks.

Also keep in mind you will be screened through an airport style metal detector and x-ray machine if your are at old city hall. Some places its just metal detector and manual inspection of bags. There are lines sometimes so a lot an extra 5-10 minutes for being screened and finding the courts. Ask the security guards to point you in the direction of your court room.


If your late its not that big of a deal but its going to add some unneccasary extra time. Courts usually start about 4-10 minutes after they actually are scheduled to depending on when the judge feels like walking in. If a judge is in a rush he will come right in and if you are late you just wont be called until there is an appropriate break to speak to the prosecutor. Prosecutor is responsible for the attendance.

So basically your going to be stuck there for about half an hour til the judge decides to get up and get a coffee. DO NOT talk in court, dont even whisper. Dead silence is preffered by judges. When you walk in late be as quiet as possible. Exagerate a bit like closing the door slowly and sitting down quickly and quietly.

If you are really late watch the court through the small windows and come in when at the very least another person is sitting down, if possible just wait for the break because you wont be able to do anything until the judge asks for a recess (recess is just like grade school a break). Not interupting court earns you respect which increases your odds of getting your ticket off.

Double check your cell phones, turn off vibrate. Should your cell phone go off, swift and meaningful aplogies judges MUST be made. Judges dont usually care that much, as long as someone owns up to it and aplogizes. Prosecutors tend to make smart a$$ comments on it though, but those guys are some really unfriendly people sometimes. Happens all the time too, so double check. I even saw one of the prosecutors phones go off. Any non religious head gear should be taken off before you walk into court.

NOD YOUR HEAD when:
-Walking into a court room with the judge present
-When approching the bench to answer to your charge (answer = talking to the judge)
-When you have received the verdict and are walking away from the bench area (bench is where the judge sits)
-As you leave the court room.

Noding sould not be exaggerated. Its a sign of respect and you will see all officals do it. A semi nod is all that is required.


General rules when you are answering to the judge if you get a paralegal or lawyer he'll explain a few basic pointers how to behave in court but incase your going solo here we go.



importantYou will see this little fence type thing behind the prosecutor. When you answer to the judge you should be a step or two in front of it, never too close but past the fence.
Remember When you are infront of it you MUST never ever turn your back to the judge. You are "answering to him" so do not interupt him and when he hands down your sentance. They will give you oppurtunities to speak and thats when you can ask for 60 days, 60 days is resonable as you have better things to do then rush to pay a ticket.

If you are on a budget and have things like rent due. You can ask for 90 days even up to a year. If you are unable to pay the ticket by the set date just go to the provincial prosecutors office. As long as you go BEFORE its due they will extend it for you.

Once the decisions been made he'll probably say it again for the record. You will then be dismissed. When you it is appropriate you must walk backwards until you cross that fence Im not joking, turning your back to the judge is extreamly disrespectful. So do not look behind you at any point as well.

The reason I say this is one time the prosecutor turned his back to the judge and he FLIPPED. Got me off my ticket though but I recommend you follow that rule. You will usually only be one or two steps infront of the fence.

And unfortunatly as catchy as the song "hands in my pocket" is make sure you do the OPPOSITE. Bad posture leaning and crossing your arms should be avoided.

03-Acura-1.7-EL

iTrader: (14)

+1!!

AggressiveAdam

iTrader: (4)

thanks

my brother just got a 130 in a 100 ticket so looks like Im back fighting tickets, Ill post new info if I get any

Honda01

That's some solid info!
Too tired to read it all though

Just a correction:
"he needs to catch you on radar. Lots of times cops pull you over for stupid speeds but they do not have you on radar. For a cop to get you on radar he MUST be going 0 km/h or a steady pace such as 110km/h on a straight or hill bend otherwise he will not be able to get an accurate measurement of your speed. "

Most police cars (Crown Vic Police interceptor, and Police Package Impalas) have 'certified calibrated speedometers' - thus, if you're speeding past him, he can figure your speed, as he KNOWS he's going 60.
We can also measure how fast you're coming behind me, as I'm doing a constant speed.

This brings me to the next point - types of devices.
I'm not going to explain them all, but note:
Radar - as found in most police cars that have a dash mounted device, are based on a doplar system... it tracks the largest/closest vechicle in it's path. Thus officers are more careful when they nab you, to be sure a big truck isn't driving opposite you.
Most handheld devices (not all) are laser, and thus they pin point your car!

Useally restricted to Traffic Enforcement - unmarked cars can have radars mounted facing reverse.
Essentially, an officer can nab you in any direction.

AggressiveAdam

iTrader: (4)

Sorry going to have to disagree on that one, a cop knowing you were speeding doesn't cut it in court. Cops rely on radars, i was in my friends Acura RL when he was zoomin at 170, we whipped by a cop he quickly pulled us over and let us off with a warning. If cops could use their cert speedo's then he would have issued the ticket. Cops are **** about radar readings.

NoSpleeny

iTrader: (3)

How long before your trial do you have to send your disclosure notice to the offenses office?

If my ticket is on June 8th or something and I send it today, is that ok?

Please help!

AggressiveAdam

iTrader: (4)

Hey guys,

Haven't been on here in a while. I went to court this past week with my brother for his 130 in a 100 (He says he was probably going around 140) anyways we followed the method I described above and went to court. Our cop was the ONLY cop that showed up, I told my brother to bring insurance documents showing how much he was paying for insurance. My brothers problem was that 1 more ticket and hes back to facility insurance, so the crown offered to drop it to 115 in a 100 no points. This is the trap, my brother is screwed regardless of 115 or 130. My brother has no points on his license so the addition of a few is trivial. He talked to the officer for 5 minutes and basically kept pleading, showing him his insurance receipts and telling him the horrors of facility insurance. The cop progressivly softend up.

The officer told him to wait a second, and went to go talk to the frustrated and overall bitchy crown. The officer came back and said "there's no evidence" and they are withdrawing the charge. I can promise you one thing, he wouldn't have just said that without the 5 minute beg a thon. The cop is often your only way out of a ticket, crowns just dont care. We were a half hour early (over estimated for traffic) and spoke to the officer immidiatly after he identified himself to the courts. Keep in mind being early means his cases are dealt with the earlier and HE gets to go home early, all factors when it comes to someone doing you a favour.

Chalk one up for Adam!

Remember when I said that our cop was the ONLY cop to show? Well someone hired a paralegal and didn't show up in court instead foolishly signed an agreement for a prearranged deal to drop his 145 in a 100 to a 125 in a 100. Now as good a deal as you may think this is (its the average walk in plea guilty deal) the officer DIDNT SHOW UP. Yes if that person had actually come to court, he would have learned that the officer didn't show up, and would have gotten off. Instead his scum bag paralegal went through with the deal and that person got convicted.

Be careful with paralegals, remember a paralegal is NOT a lawyer, (s)he is an agent. Just like I was to my brother....

AznSaint

iTrader: (2)

nicely done, i've got three tickets to deal with in the next month...

just recently.. i went to old city hall and filled out a form to get the disclosures..... it'll take six to eight weeks and my court dates for those disclosures are within a few weeks. so if you wanted, instead of writing a letter.. so can just go to the juristiction of your ticket court house and just fill out a form to get the disclosure.



.....Hey adam, i was wondering.... if your brother didnt get that deal... were you/your brother going to try and get an adjornment?

AggressiveAdam

iTrader: (4)

I still prefer the mail system for disclosure since it probably takes longer (though what do I know). Also you have proof you sent it and that it was received. I suppose either way is good but if you live closer to a Canada Post then City Hall (most probably do) then I think mail is the better way. Might cost a few bucks but its better then standing in a line.

Yes if the officer didn't give us the deal we would have adjourned it.

AznSaint

iTrader: (2)

...yes, either way is good.. .i just had a lot of time that day and was just learning my way(s) around it.
there's usually isnt a line at old city hall in the prosecutors office' line for disclosures. they'll give you a proof of copy that you've requested disclosure.


in regards to what adam said earlier about being in court and a paralegal pleading to a guilty plea even though the cop didnt show up....... i saw TWO paralegals do the same thing when i went for one of my court dates the other day.

i find that the prosecutors these days are more aggressive and sneaky. a few years ago.... for example, when i would sign my name in letting the prosecutor know that im present..... they would normally just tell me to sit down and tell me to wait for a bit because they know the officer isnt showing up....... this time, however.. the (guy) prosecutor was sneaky... i had a ticket for improper seat belt... i showed him that the seat belt was properly working now and asked if he would just let the ticket go...but instead... he pursude and asked me how i would plea and then just asked me if i was going to plea guilty. I just said no and said I'm pleading Not Guilty at the moment because i knew the officer was a no-show at the moment. Actually.. for the whole 3pm court time, none of the three officer showed up. Even though none of the three of the officer showed up.. he still asked if they would like to plea to a lesser charge, but STILL a conviction... not once mentioned to the defendants that the officer was a no show.

once the judge was in.. he quickly asked the defendants to the stand first and had them plea to a lesser charge and a conviction. you could tell he was being a sneaky b.asssturd because there was this one guy that stepped out of the court room for a second.. he had this one lawyer step out and have the guy come in to plea to a guilty charge.

there was a total of five or six cases where the defendant, two were paralegals defending for other people..... that agreed to a lesser charge. and all where the officer issued the ticket did not show. In all... everybody that was there that day should of gotten off the ticket but didnt.

slypty

Thanks for all the info, it will help when I go to fight my $450.00 fine for parking in a capped zone.

That's right, it's $450.00 fine for parking in a handicapped space. If anyone has any advice for me, let me fill you in on some details.

No, I did not know it was a handicapped spot. There wasn't a 'blue' handicapped sign on the asphalt of the spot. Instead, it was a house with some handicapped kids that have a private spot marked for specifically for them. Just like a 'Parking 1-hour 8am-6pm' sign, except 'handicapped zone.'

I didn't see the sign when I pulled in to the spot. It can fit two cars, and there was an SUV in front of the sign. Since I drive a Civic, my angle to the sign was out of sight from behind the SUV. I went to work, and 4-hours later I learned that I have a $450 fine on my hands.

So, the basic problem is that I'm guilty, but I should probably plead guilty with explanation. I plan to take pics of the angle of the sign and how I approached the spot with out seeing it. I even talked to the owner of the house to see if I could get them to vouch that they were parked with their SUV their. They denied it, basically said 'it must have been someone else parked illegally.' Conveniently they had a friend that came by that night with a maroon SUV, (I was parked behind a maroon SUV) but they claim she was not parked there, probably to get her out of any claims or differences.

So, if anyone has some pointers they'd be greatly appreciated. I can't afford this whopping fee right now. Thanks

SickCivic

I totally agree with this.Before reading this I got pulled over at 12am after picking my girlfriend up from work. I ran an amber light (lol). That means running a yellow when you have enough time to stop. I pulled over on a side street and turned off lights and engine. Even though i was extremely frustrated I was also extremely polite and nice to the officer. He wrote me the ticket and everything. I paid the ticket and later the check that i had paid with got mailed back to me. I called the city and they said the officer did not hand in the ticket and that this was very rare. Moral of the story is be nice to police officers!

NeedsACivic

Hello Everyone,

First post but really important to me, I was pulled over last year because I apparently did not stop long enough at a stop sign. I also had an outdated insurance slip, however I was fully insured at the time of the offence. I got a ticket for failure to show insurance, as well as a failure to stop at a stop sign. I went to court to get a court date, however I moved during the year and I periodically go to my old apt to see if I still had any mail. I found a letter today from court stating that my court date was today which I already missed!!! I updated my mailing address for my license as soon as I moved, shouldn't they have sent it to my new address??? Now, that I've missed my court date what am I to do? Can I apply for a re-open/appeal to this? Any help would be appreciated, FYI I already got a letter from my insurance company stating that I was insured at the time.

Thanks

Zizikhan

Hi, i just got hit by a truck on 401 on 26th May 2014.. His company called the cops and i got a ticket for unsafe lane change for them appearntly that was the reason for getting hit by the side... My rear mirror broke n bumper fell off.. I got a $110 unsafe lane change ticket but i want to fight it, iam going to mail it out tomorrow.. Which option should i choose from the back of the ticket and what do i do.. Please help me with this! Iam 23yrs old female with g2 license!