General Automotive DiscussionGeneral automotive discussion and chat. Honda, Toyota, Chevrolet, Ford. It doesn't matter, just talk about it here.
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My theory is to go with what you know. I've been buying Civics since 98 and they've been good to me. Until they give me problems, I will stick with them. So, find a car you like, and if it works, stay with that brand of car. Who knows.
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I love my civic to death. The only problems that I have with my Civic is it rattles, suspension (way it drives, kinda bouncy), and the interior (I have a eternal blue car and hate the beige interior). I am kind of doubting my Civic right now because I am trying to find a car that fits my needs which that winner is the 97-01 Prelude with automatic sports-shift electron blue and maybe black. But I am being very patient in finding one but I may never find one and just stick with my Civic.
I think it is true that the new Civics rattle more than the previous ones. It's not fair to compare one car to another, but I mean generally, there seems to be more complaint about rattles than previous Civics. Mine had rattle from 1st week, and of course, you know how it is to get something like that fixed at the dealership. They always tell you that they can't hear anything.
I am hoping things have changed for 2002 models, because 2001 wasn't the best year for Civic's quality, reliability & fit/finish. Today I went into my friend's 1998 Corolla VE & my brother's 2001 Celica GT and they felt so much more solid. And way more rattle free. Not to say my car is bad, but I would say Toyota is Honda's #1 competition, and they should bump up their effort a knotch in the quality inspection zone.
<< I think it is true that the new Civics rattle more than the previous ones. It's not fair to compare one car to another, but I mean generally, there seems to be more complaint about rattles than previous Civics. Mine had rattle from 1st week, and of course, you know how it is to get something like that fixed at the dealership. They always tell you that they can't hear anything.
I am hoping things have changed for 2002 models, because 2001 wasn't the best year for Civic's quality, reliability & fit/finish. Today I went into my friend's 1998 Corolla VE & my brother's 2001 Celica GT and they felt so much more solid. And way more rattle free. Not to say my car is bad, but I would say Toyota is Honda's #1 competition, and they should bump up their effort a knotch in the quality inspection zone. >>
The 2002 Civic had added sound insulation so that may have been to deaden interior sounds. A revamped Corolla is coming out for 2003 which could give Honda some problems, especially when you consider that Toyota a huge conglomerate 10 times bigger than Honda which can invest a lot in R & D and Honda is just a company of people who like to make engines and things to put the engines into. The good news is that the new Civic is rumored to look like the Echo, so that may help Civic, although I sat in an Echo at an auto show and when you think that you only have to shell out $11 - $12 k for a Toyota, that's not too bad either. It's sorta like the inside of Calvin and Hobbes space vehicle.
I've been talking a lot about the rattles too and I really want to get rid of them, but there are a lot of good things about Civic like the crash test ratings, and the fuel economy, although the fuel economy is largely achieved with thin metal and glass, making for a lighter vehicle, and the environment too. Safety and environment are nice things. It always gets me around too, rattles or no rattles.
<< The good news is that the new Civic is rumored to look like the Echo, so that may help Civic >>
Say what??? Or do you actually mean, the new COROLLA is rumored to look like the Echo? >>
[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/IMG] Oops, I meant the new Corolla was rumored to look like the Echo, of course. I was just reading a review of it at Consumers Guide. The front end does sorta have that Focus/Echo shape, the rest looks more or less like the earlier Corollas, but it was a small photo, so I didn't get a great look at it. CG is still giving it a lower rating than Civic though. I also read today that U.S. March unit sales for the new Corolla were were way up, while Civic was down slightly, but with Civic holding about a 2000 unit lead. Around 25,000 to 23,000. Civic is also ahead for YTD sales but the 03 Corolla was just introduced, so we'll have to see where those trends go. Meanwhile Camry is doing a job on Accord sales. There seems to be a definite customer preference at the moment for Camry and a willingness and ability among that market segment to pay the premium price for Camry.
Umm... isn't the new Corolla out already? It does have a high seating position, but so do the 7th Gen Civics. But that is the natural evolution, since parking spaces are getting tigher, and people are getting bigger. Higher seating position means less need for leg room, so... personally, the looks of the tall greenhouse is growing on me. To me, the new Toyota Corolla looks a lot better than the Civic Sedan. For some reason, it looks a lot more fresher and, dare I say, more personality. Interior material quality between the two cars are about the same. I think ergonomics are still a tad better in the Civic (gotta love the virtical knob switch layout). But noise/vibration/harshness? You gotta give Corolla props. Never have I seen a car in that price range so quiet. And to be honest, I thought the ride was better than the Accord's. No kidding. Seemed just as quiet too. I was so blown away. Like all new Toytoas, the headlamps were simply amazing. The automatic transmission was no comparison, it was much faster, smoother and more intelligent than the Civic's. The 1.8L VVT-i engine was also a lot more satisfying than any SOHC 1.6 or 1.7L motors Honda has, albeit lacking any character. It's got a tad more power, but much more usuable low end grunt and midrange punch. A lot better for passing, or creeping off the line.
One thing the Corolla ultimately lacked was the control. Braking power & modulation feel was lacking, same with the handling and steering feel. But I guess that's the price the Corolla owner pays for having such a nice ride. Also for some reason, Corolla has the geeky image, whereas the Civic doesn't. Resale value, I would have to give the edge to Civics. Only because it has a wider customer base than the Corolla.
Too bad they don't make a coupe............... or that Corolla RS hothatch they have in Japan & Europe. 190HP from a 1.8L ain't bad. And it would do more than well against the new 160HP Civic Si/SiR.
<< <<Umm... isn't the new Corolla out already? >>
I guess it just came out a month or two ago but I don't think I have seen one yet.
<< It does have a high seating position, but so do the 7th Gen Civics. But that is the natural evolution, since parking spaces are getting tigher, and people are getting bigger. Higher seating position means less need for leg room, so... personally, the looks of the tall greenhouse is growing on me. To me, the new Toyota Corolla looks a lot better than the Civic Sedan. For some reason, it looks a lot more fresher and, dare I say, more personality. >>
I don't know, I think I still prefer the looks of the Civic, which to me seems somewhat VW or BMW ish, but it is the quality of the car that matters in the end.
<<Interior material quality between the two cars are about the same. I think ergonomics are still a tad better in the Civic (gotta love the virtical knob switch layout). But noise/vibration/harshness? You gotta give Corolla props. Never have I seen a car in that price range so quiet. And to be honest, I thought the ride was better than the Accord's. No kidding. Seemed just as quiet too. I was so blown away. Like all new Toytoas, the headlamps were simply amazing. The automatic transmission was no comparison, it was much faster, smoother and more intelligent than the Civic's. The 1.8L VVT-i engine was also a lot more satisfying than any SOHC 1.6 or 1.7L motors Honda has, albeit lacking any character. It's got a tad more power, but much more usuable low end grunt and midrange punch. A lot better for passing, or creeping off the line.>>
I have never driven a Corolla or an Accord but it sounds like Toyota is starting to overtake Honda for good. It figures I would be be buying a Civic for the first time just when it is at the peak of its pricing and beginning a quality slide. Actually, I don't think the Civic is that comfortable a car, even a lot of the domestic compacts seem to be more comfortable. The headlights do seem dim and the auto transmission or engine doesn't seem to produce much when trying to go from 35 to 50 mph.
<<One thing the Corolla ultimately lacked was the control. Braking power & modulation feel was lacking, same with the handling and steering feel. But I guess that's the price the Corolla owner pays for having such a nice ride. Also for some reason, Corolla has the geeky image, whereas the Civic doesn't. >>
That could change if the perceptions that Corolla's and Toyota's in general are better in quality. Plus if the new Corolla is better and Honda is stuck with the 7th gen until 2005 or 06 that is already second rate to the Corolla, then Civic could lose a lot of buyers.
<< Resale value, I would have to give the edge to Civics. Only because it has a wider customer base than the Corolla.>>
This could change too. The current resale values are based on Honda's past glories. If the perception is the the quality is no longer exists with the 7th generation Civics it would seem to have to have an effect on resale values. Plus everyone here has fairly new cars. If after 4 or 5 years everyone starts having problems with the 7th gen Civics that the Toyotas aren't having then I would think that the psychology behind the high resale values would be affected and people may snap out of paying new car prices for 4 year old Civics.
<<Too bad they don't make a coupe............... or that Corolla RS hothatch they have in Japan & Europe. 190HP from a 1.8L ain't bad. And it would do more than well against the new 160HP Civic Si/SiR.>> >>
It doesn't look good for Civic. From what you wrote there doesn't seem to be much reason to buy one over a Civic. At this point I might be considering Hyundai next time.
I was just wondering how many Toyota salesman are attending this forum?
Anyway, The new toyota's are such a rip off of the civic its not even funny.
The Matrix is like a 92 civic HB. Anyone else notice the lights on these cars all resemble ours.
The Protege 5 is the same thing. Rip off.
As for the rattle, I had one, got it fixed at the dealer when I was getting my oilchange.
The service was great.
R/T
"The new toyota's are such a rip off of the civic its not even funny."
–Are you kidding??? That's a major insult to CIVIC's. The new Corolla looks the same as the old one.
'The Matrix is like a 92 civic HB."
–Have you actually sat in one? it's twice the size, has 4Wd, more power and a completely different interior.
"The Protege 5 is the same thing. Rip off."
–The Protege5 has existed in a similar form for years before this model CIVIC in Japan. IT LOOKS ABSOLUTELY nothing like a CIVIC.
"Anyone else notice the lights on these cars all resemble ours."
–I can't say I've noticed that at all.
You guys are hallarious. Yes, Honda is great. So is Civic. But don't mistake it for a Ferrari.
It's just a Civic. It's an economy car. It's not a high performance sports car nor is it not a lavaishing luxery car. It's good on a gas and easy to park. It just so happens to be great at what it does and fun to drive. Yes, I am aware of Civics that can full off 9second 1/4 mile slips. Those are modded, and you can do that to a VW Beetle. Or pratically any car, for that matter.
Why would you put down Corollas? Ever own one? Probably not. Besides, putting it down makes *YOU* look stupid. Because your car is slower than that "stupid" Corolla, aka "Civic rip off".
And let's not talk about ripping off either. It was Honda who followed Toyota into the minvan market (Previa to Oddasy), cute ute market (RAV4 to CRV), sports car market (MR-2 to NSX.. midengine, rear wheel, 2 seater), and now midsize sport ute market (Highlander to Pilot). There is nothing wrong with copying a competition. It's called market sharing. If you see a competition being successful at something, you mimic it then build upon it. And you take their customers. Why do you think Toyota & Honda has grown so much in the past few decades? Fast forward 30 years. Who is the fastest growing company in North America? It's Hyundai/Kia. They are copying the competition, eliminating their weakness (10yr warrenty to offset poor reliability reputation) and selling it all at a much lower cost. You can call it dumb, a rip off, an insult, or whatever you want, but in another 10 years, see what will happen. Just don't forget 30 years ago, people who drove GMs, Fords and Chryslers called Japanese cars "cheap imitations."
