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So wait, if our engines are already pretty tuned from the factory, and they still make the same HP as previous generation Civics (at least the EX does), then wtf?
6th gen EX = 127 hp (poorly tuned, bolt-ons give decent increase)
7th gen EX = 127 hp (well tuned, bolt-ons give pretty much nothing)
Why doesn't that seem right? It sounds like if the 6th gen engine was less tuned from the factory and it made the same amount of power that it was a better engine. Make sense? Like, in order to squeeze out equal performance from this one, they had to tune it better.
Ok, so the 7th gen engine has a little more torque than the 6th gen, but still. They're pretty much the same.
actually its got way more torque.. the d17 puts out more torque than a b16a2 from the factory.. chew on that!!!
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I think it's to early to say that D17 doesn't get good gains.
With d16 you are getting the same gains + d17 is heavier.
If you want like 300whp you can forget it, but I thing you get the same gains like with d16, and even more.
I don't think the D17 is any worse than the previous D-series motors (ie. D16Y8, D16Z6, etc) in terms of lack of gains from bolt-on mods. On any of these D-series motors, the gains have always been relatively minimal in terms of bolt-ons such as I/H/E.
only difference is, more companies have parts for the other engine, and also they get to mod the ECU (honda data) which makes a big difference when your modding anything.
__________________ 7 mile isn't just a street, it's a way of life.
let honda data or a super charge come this way for our cars... we would no post half of the negative stuf we say about the engine.. infact if that came out, most people would build up the internals as well to get the most out the car. not just slap on a trubo and hope to go fast.
__________________ 7 mile isn't just a street, it's a way of life.
all an engine is, is an air pump. Push more air in get more power. So i dont think its so much that this vehicle is MEANT to be ULEV it's just that it's set up that way with the cats and such.
Cam and intake vales would help alot IMO. I mean we've replaced everything else to get more air going through from the intake out to the exhaust and we do not get much. The only other factor is fuel. Which the stock injectors and pump are in no way maxed out so that can be eliminated. So now we're back to air. And thats why i say cam and vales. Pretty much the only thing left.
I mean if there's a bottleneck anywhere in the system it will eliminate the gains that you COULD get elsewhere. Look at it like this. If you have a road that's 4 lanes wide for the first 5mi and last 5 mi but for 50 ft inbetween it's only 1 lane. Isnt that going to stop the flow of ALL the traffic. And that analogy is the same reason that we get Zero gains from exhaust. It's because all the airflow is stopped before we get to it. Even if the last 5 mi of the road were 8 lanes wide, it still wouldnt help traffic flow...would it.
obviouosly there is nothing else limiting. thats shown by putting a trubo on. That FORCES more air in. and we do get gains from that. so it shows that air is the limiting factor.
Waight for cams, then you will fill gains.
I have just mounted Apexi World Sport2 on my car and it pulls little bit
more in higher RPM. WTF did you think? That you will put intake header and exhaust and have like 700wph???
for the mods that i have i feel a lil differance. it cost a few bucks but whatever it what i like to do, and its fun to play around with cars. i installed my downpipe so now i have straight pipe and i feel a nice differance. but i def didnt expect crazy gains. but i should be installing my turbo kit this weekend at my boys house. so im sure ill see somehting from that.
thats cool but some people (not all on this site) think that yea slap on intake, exhauset for the sound, and maybe a header, and your racing.. i mean if i didnt' know better, or u read what the manufactuer puts on boxes (intake 15hp) header (20) for example, u would think that the car is supposed to be fast.
__________________ 7 mile isn't just a street, it's a way of life.
yes i agree with "acjones20" if you are really frustrated with the performance numbers you are gvetting as feedback from your four banger then maybe you should upgrade to a faster stock car!!
I never figured slapping on an intake would give me 10 hp. All I am asking is what bolt ons will give me a gain, wether it be 1whp or 200whp. I just need to know what will benefit me, might not be worth the money for the performance It gives, but Im looking at it as if I get ANY performance from it. If lets say this exhaust actually makes me lose power then I want to know. or don't get pullies because they won't give you a gain without being highly modded because if your not highly modded your car will **** up.
See where I am getting at? Im not expecting i/h/e to make me a fast car, I just want something that pulled maybe even A LITTLE better then it did the mod before..
Well Hondata seems to have one in the works, so maybe a Ecu and a tune our car could pull off some better numbers. I sure hope so.. I don't want it to be a complete lost cause..
i dont even think it's really the ecu. the computer just adjust fuel levels to the amount of air coming into the car to achieve the correct air/fuel ratio. So if you're running full throttle you're getting as much air as possible in for the given parts and the main thing the ecu does is add more fuel. I mean it will help but it wont be a fix. need better flow.
Well supposidly the ECU resets itself if it thinks something is wrong, for example you install intake more air coming in, senses something is wrong so it only brings in the amount of air it did before.
So if we got more air with a new ECU and a little more fuel, we'd be a little better off I suppose?
Ohio Josh, where do you live? My mom works at the Honda plant and I saw you talking before you getting a job there possibly..
Sorry, but that's not entirely correct. The ecu does its best to maintain the proper air fuel ratio. So it will adjust whatever it needs to make it 14.7:1 even if this causes power loss. At the ideal ratio, combustion is more efficient and produces the least emissions. And even then, it doesn't do a good job. I needed a vafcii to make the a/f curve flat. The ecu had it lean at lower rpms and rich at higher rpms. This is why throwing on a turbo will make the car run very lean, as will adding more air. The ecu won't add fuel to make your mods work better, unless you force it with a controler. This is one reason why the hondata programmable ecu works so well.
anyone ever thought of why honda converted from a DIS ignition to an EDIS system....
yeah its more efficient to a point where there is virtually no moving parts on the ignition aside from a crank and cam sensor.....
i really prefer the DIS ones sice you can easily pull the advance or the retard from the distributor.......
maybe the ignition is also one thing to ponder aside from the bolt-ons and other that would richen the air and fuel.....how bout the fire that would burn it....
I checked by one tuner and he said standard my car has 125hp, with chip, and air intake i'll have 142 hp.
And d16 With intake and chip has 140hp.
Chip is something like controller, they change EPROM from your ecu, adding more fuel, ignition timing, etc...µ
site is http://www.kempower.be/indexd.htm
Than go on ROAD PREPARATION
-PETROL
-HONDA
-CIVIC
And than you will get tabel, with stage 1, and 2 kit.
i live up by Cedar Point. but i missed out on the hiring by 1 Day oh well i get paid decent here and it's where i have a few rental properties so i guess thats good. I'd have to drive like 3hrs back up here to fix a friggin leaky faucet or some crap if i moved lol.
Yeah, but why put all that time and money in a D17 only to come up with less than 200hp and a car that runs low 15's? This isnt a race car people or even a sports car. It's an economy car.
Alot of us like the way a modded civic looks, and making it faster is just an extra challenge. I know by now I would've had enough for an rsx with all the money I threw at the civic. But I don't like driving a stock car anymore, even if it's faster
Ok I'm trying to build an Intake mani for my EP2.
It has D16V1 engine Same Intake mani and Exhaust Header as EX but 110 bhp and 111 lb/ft Torque.
I have been looking at Helm-holtz Resonance tuning and it seems to me that with the intake mani and exhaust header honda has been hedging its bets quite a bit.
Intake Mani has narow long runners and small plenum for low RPM torque and narow and short header primaries to give mixture of low and high RPM torque.
I am trying to bring all together at 6000RPM and go all out for BHP (at that RPM) I'm sure i will loose low end Torque but hey it is only an inline 4 1.6L SOHC so if I hit 140 hp then it will be a start.
I think that Honda has tried to get the widest 100lb/ft torque curve possible with this engine and it does work in that it will take on many cars with 120-130 bhp because they have narrow power bands and lower torque i.e. older civics and saxo's and other 16v engines.
