General Automotive DiscussionGeneral automotive discussion and chat. Honda, Toyota, Chevrolet, Ford. It doesn't matter, just talk about it here.
Welcome to civicforums.com!
Welcome to civicforums.com.
You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to start new topics, reply to conversations, privately message other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join civicforums.com today!
Someone made the statement that LX cars have more torque, they don't. Someone said that driver skill makes a difference, yes and no...so that does not quite cut it either. Someone said that the LX is faster by not a lot because of the weight diff...well closer to the truth…but still not there--not everyone weighs the same or carries the same amount of crap in their car.
I have heard some say VTEC does not make a difference based on the numbers above…performance is about overall power and torque bands not just the peak numbers…so that theory gets KO’d.
I will tell you what does work though...how many heads, blocks, pistons, rods and so forth are produced out of the same mold before a new one is used? How much difference is there between cast #1 and cast #100--enough to make a performance difference. Trust me if you took 2 EX's and ran them with the same driver they would not be consistent, if you took two LX's and ran them...you got it...neither would they be consistent. That is why we dream about ported heads; balanced and blue printed, knife edged rotating assemblies; upgraded intake manifolds; larger bore t-bodies; more aggressive cams; bigger fuel rails; more air, more spark, more performance.
Let me ask you guys something else, when you buy a header do you just install it or have it installed right out of the box? You do right? Because that is the best it will ever be? Wrong! Take a look at the slop that is left from the welding and coatings inside the primary tubes and collectors that causes turbulence which in turn affects performance. Also, another small example--when you go to the local auto store and get new plugs (which is like every 100,000 miles right because that does not make that much of difference...keep believing that) you throw them in right out of the box because they are optimum and perfect that way...Lord help those of you who think like this. Other stuff to think about, how much un-sprung weight and rotational mass have you actually shaved or added with some of your upgrades? I could go with this type of thing all year long...but I won’t.
What I am getting at is that based on manufacture SAE-HP ratings (don’t get me started on that), and what kind of aftermarket parts you have on your car are not the only deciding factors—and sure as hell not the best ones—when bench racing a car (which is about a 60:40 game anyway). When was your engine and components cast or forged when it was put together, how well did you break the car in, how well do you maintain it—not just the motor oil and filter, but fuel filter (in our case fuel screen), spark plugs, timing, valve slack etc etc…, do you pay attention to fine tuning details or over look them…racing is a sport that requires paying attention to the fine details when building a car…plain and simple, next your combination of parts makes a difference, then being a knowledgeable, skilled and consistent driver comes into play…but without the whole package you just have about average.
To remove this ad, register today for free or log in if already registered!
__________________ I don't care what you drive...as long as you can drive.
Last edited by HondaChevy; 02-09-2004 at 05:51 PM.
Sponsored Links
To avoid seeing this ad in our forum please register at CivicForums.com
By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features.
uhhh all i can say about this is they more than likely also have different gears in the trannies which would also be another factor that would be added into the mix....but either way i could care less cause its still my grocery getter that handles good and looks decent....deffinately not a fast or race car nor will it be....its just to offey (spelling?) ill stick with the EF for racin
Originally posted by jdmb16ahatch is they more than likely also have different gears in the trannies which would also be another factor that would be added into the mix....
Yet another great example...let me also clarify something, this is not an EX biased post or an LX biased post...it is a general post to remind or inform, that is all.
__________________ I don't care what you drive...as long as you can drive.
The biggest reason I started this post is because I saw alot of debate on the topic around the site, wanted to put in my two-cents...instead of thread jacking someones thread, I got my own...something called a little respect.
a lot of people do sadboy. it was an informative post about how there is a lot more that goes into a cars performance than the horsepower figure of the manufacturers website. how can you fault someone for trying to educate people on something they may not realize
its true that the performance of a car can vary depeding on build #, weight of person, etc.
but the reason most people use those figures is that its the easiest and its "in the perfect world" type situations.
Everyone knows that there are LOADS upon LOADS of other variables, but you account for everything.
as for the whole header scenerio you made...some people dont have the knowledge or the tools to make the header perfect. Also, they probably spent a good portion of their wallet on it and therefore dont want to add a chance that they might **** it up and end up wasting all that money. For the average tuner, out of the box and on the car is just fine.
you also dont account for the amount of time someone has to work on their car. Sure, you can spend 3 hours redoing the welds on a product, then spending another hour installing it. But that's 4 hour's worth of time that most people would rather spend doing something else, like spending time with their family or friends.
i'm in no way trying to make ur thread go sour, but you just have to account for what people think is worth their time and whats not.
Also, sure that adding a header with some imperfections in it may not give the best performance possible, but its most likely an improvement over stock (except for maybe DC Sports products ) and thats what most people care about. Its still an improvement right? Sure why not just leave it alone then, or at least until i have some more time to take everythign apart and make everything perfect.
Cambo, thank you for the reassurance that you are not trying to make my post go sour, but once again the main reason for the post was because I saw a lot of LX this LX that, EX this EX that, and just wanted to shed some light and or remind others that there is a lot more in a way a car performs than just stating “based on factory performance numbers” why an EX or LX is faster than the another.
In regards to how much time one spends on tuning a car and my references to fine tuning was an example of how people ignore what efforts go into a car. If I were to lose to another Civic with similar mods but a different packaged car (EX, LX) than I would know that they took more time into fine tuning their car than I did and that I did not lose simply because they had an EX or an LX.
I agree with you on the time and risk factor that goes into fine tuning some don’t wont to take the time others don’t know how, but by the same token I don’t have a lot of time on my hands, I am a husband and step-father of two girls, I work a 8-5 job plus outside contract work...I work hard for what I've got right along with everyone else on this site.
I just want people to understand that their are more deciding factors into why any model civic may or may not perfom as well as the same or different model civic--or any car for that matter, dont base it on just factory SAE-performance numbers.
__________________ I don't care what you drive...as long as you can drive.
Last edited by HondaChevy; 02-09-2004 at 05:44 PM.
Originally posted by cambo Also, sure that adding a header with some imperfections in it may not give the best performance possible, but its most likely an improvement over stock (except for maybe DC Sports products ) and thats what most people care about. Its still an improvement right? Sure why not just leave it alone then, or at least until i have some more time to take everythign apart and make everything perfect.
Did you take my post personal in anyway? If you did I appologize.
__________________ I don't care what you drive...as long as you can drive.
Originally posted by HondaChevy saw a lot of LX this LX that, EX this EX that, and just wanted to shed some light and or remind others that there is a lot more in a way a car performs than just stating “based on factory performance numbers” why an EX or LX is faster than the another.
once again, those people are just basing their opinions on ideal situations.
also, you need to understand that some people are rationalizing for their car trim purchase over the latter. No one wants to admit what they bought is inferior to another, except for maybe you DX owners out there .
no i didnt take it personal. Its just that you started a thread and i wasnt going to let it go one way. i wanted to make it more into a debate like thread where people can take a stand on. A LOT of people on this site jump on the bandwagon in any given thread. Didnt want that to happen in this thread because this could be a great thread given the opprunity (i know i killed that spelling) that people aren't afraid to voicing their opinions.
Originally posted by HondaChevy I have heard some say V-tec does not make a difference based on the numbers above…
Last time I checked it was called VTEC, not V-tec, or V-tech... Just thought I'd point this out to you seeing as you appear to be so passionate about this topic lease:
I am glad that I did not offend, I appreciate the debate as opposed to argument.
But yet once again I must state that I agree that people may or may not have the time
to fine tune and yet it was a mere example as to why one LX or EX with a header, intake and
cat-back may lose to another LX or EX with the same parts. Please all, note that my thread is
not based solely on fine tuning but manufacture related issues as well.
__________________ I don't care what you drive...as long as you can drive.
) and thats what most people care about. Its still an improvement right? Sure why not just leave it alone then, or at least until i have some more time to take everythign apart and make everything perfect. 
. 
