For you guys who did engine swaps, question.

SlammedBlueEM2 · 08-04-2003

How well does your car handle when compared to having the D17 in the engine bay?

I ask because I was talking with Brian from Hasport and another guy about some of the possible downsides you might get with doing it. He says after doing the swap in his Civic his car handles slightly worse than before. (I never asked what was the cause of this, but I guess new weight difference... ?)

So yeah, if you guys happen to run the same suspension you had with the old engine, and ran it with the new engine I'm curious to know. I know it's something that can be improved but I'd like to see how others feel about their cars different capabilities when turning the wheel.

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NeoMagus · 08-04-2003

ive been wondering the same thing as well. Shouldn't be a weight issue compared to the D, K motors weigh in less than B motors, and older civics with swaps usually dont have handling problems.

Boilermaker1 · 08-04-2003

I don't know how it's gonna shake out with a swapped car, but stock the Civic is 61/39 split, and the RSX is 70/30. I don't know if it will go all the way to 70/30, but probably close. What you probably have to do is tweak the suspension to stiffen the front while keeping the back where it is. Hopefully that should get the back around if you can make the front hang on. If not... then stiffen the rear to crazy hell.

SlammedBlueEM2 · 08-04-2003

I'm gonna have to retract my statement on what he said about how his car handled, but I'm still curious to know how other people feel about the Civic's suspension.

Another issue was how would the car hold up if auto-x'd or in another similar event, but Brian's Civic has already hit the track, and is doing just fine which is good news.

Overall, this is what he said (and why I retracted my previous statement because I misinterpreted what he said):

Quote:

Now for our K20 powered 01 Civic, since I daily drive it. Let's just say for the sake of argument, our car handles slightly worse than a modified 01 up Civic and doesn't have a turbo. It would still crush an 01 up Civic in a autocross or roadracing because of the huge hp deficit the 01 up Civic would have.

But in reality our car has a turbo, Huge AEM brakes and has Progress Group's new road racing suspension for the RSX. It will outrun all but the most highly modified RSXes. If you want proof pick up the next issue of Car and Driver and see how the car performed in the 4 Cylinder SuperCar Decathlon.

AntDeezy · 08-04-2003

I read that article, the civic spanked pretty much every car on the test ....

Boilermaker1 · 08-04-2003

Quote:

It would still crush an 01 up Civic in a autocross or roadracing because of the huge hp deficit the 01 up Civic would have.

I gotta disagree with this. HP means d!cksquat in autocross. I get my ass kicked by a 90 HP VW Rabbit every damn weekend. In autocross... corners come up 12-15 times faster than they are in Formula 1 (Still 10-15 turns, but now in 1/2 a mile instead of 2-4 miles), so power is nothing really... since its not very often you can just lay on it for an extended period of time. And if it's gonna make the nose heavier... that isn't gonna help either.
I dunno... I guess if you had the same guy driving both, maybe you'd turn a faster time with more HP, but I really think it's gonna be a toss up. You'll trade lightweight and a decient sense of balance for some extra power that you may not be able to ever use.

Road racing... is a totally different story. Gimme a K20A2 right now. For running corners at 80 or 90 (rather than 20 or 30), I'll take the extra power to go hauling down long straights... Now you're back to the 1 mile + tracks with decient length straight aways where HP helps.

briang · 08-04-2003

I would have to disagree about your HP means d!cksquat statement. HP makes a big difference. Although I believe our supercharged K24 Civic would be faster than the turbo K20 Civic because of the low end torque and less violent powerband.

I'll site a friend of mines 86 CRX Si. He autocrossed it extensively and regularly beat Vettes except on large autocross tracks where there power helped Vettes. Now before you say, "I told you so", then he put a B16 in the CRX. The cars balance is little worse but he is much faster. The two tenths is more than offset by the 1 to 3 seconds he has picked up because of the much improved power to weight ratio.

It's easy to theorize about the value of handling vs power argument, but you really need to drive the cars to understand. A 50% increase in power is significant.

brian g

poor jaysun · 08-05-2003

I have to agree with boilermaker1
HP isn't everything, esp. in autocross

Dr5D · 08-05-2003

auto cross is mostly handling, but if your car can get up and go quicker, regardless of the actual hp, it would do better

briang · 08-05-2003

I can probably say this 'till my fingers fall off, but you guys probably won't understand 'till actually experience it.

50% more power makes a huge time difference. Your car would have to be a total turd in the handling department or driving with cranial anal submersion for it not to make a difference.

brian g

pheaton · 08-05-2003

Hrm . Soon as I do a race I'll let you all know .. heh . .I figure it like this though in my mind. .

Basically if your handling sucks, I would think you need a really fast car to make up for the crappy handling. . If your car handles good, then you don't need so much power. Now. . if you have power and handling, then you are untouchable.

What you need outta your car changes from race to race I'm sure. All depends on the track and your competition .

Again, I've never actually done a race like that, so I dunno. .

Everything I know, I've learned off GT3 hehe ..